I'm 62.5 now. The day when I can apply for a property tax exemption from the City of Yonkers and finally start saving some money is not that far off. Generally what happens with the MMR vaccine is this. Let's say you got it in public school like I did it doesn't hit you until you're 85 or 92. It's very slow-moving.
Practicing medicine without a license. Would you trust Trump with a colonoscope?
I'm not sure "trust" and "Trump" ever belong in the same sentence.
ReplyDeleteYes... Trump, succumbing to the idiot gene we all have, said the MMR vaccine is "lethal". And his buddy Dr. Oz was forced to admit in an interview what we all know... Trump is/was/and always will be, WRONG, at least on vaccines.
Trump Admin officials know the truth about the MMR and other vaccines. They know they are safe and effective. Heck, the Trump Admin developed AND released the mRNA Covid vaccines.
Did they do so knowing what they are now incorrectly claiming, that they are deadly and cause miscarriages? Were they too stupid to figure all of this out before RFK arrived? Are they all a bunch of liars? Or are they spewing all this BS for the sake of winning a few votes from the vaccine hesitant ppl out there?
Or, more likely, is the answer D... all of the above.
I don't travel in anti-vaxx circles but I never heard of the MMR vaccine being lethal before. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the whole thrust of the anti-vax movement been vaccines cause autism but not necessarily death per se? I was never a fan of OWS or Operation Warp Speed because vaccines take a hell of a lot of time to be properly studied and tested but having said that Trump is a man of contradictions. HOW do you go from being Mr. OWS to all vaccines are bad?
ReplyDeleteHow indeed. That is the question. As for the mRNA stuff, we've been working on those since the 1960s. So the idea and/or the technology, is not new, or even for that matter, unvetted.
DeleteWas/is it perfect? Of course not, but we do know this... we live tested the polio vaccine because the disease was killing kids. Covid, in the early days was terrifying. It was killing lots of folks. Certainly politicians, like polio survivor Mitch McConnell know all of this. Why they didn't stand up and tell Trump to stuff it, I'll never know.
Let's not forget though under the great Biden Era Uncle Joe and his team were pressuring social media platforms to censor and suppress anti-vax stuff or what it deemed mis- or disinformation. Not the way to go. Un-American. You disagree with something allow the other side to put it on the table and rebut it if you can. The other thing is now many folk say give the covid vax to the high-risk groups if they want it but during the heady days of the pandemic there was an unusual amount of social pressure for everyone on the planet to take it. With a mortality rate of less than 1% it was deemed an existential threat. People lost their jobs because they wouldn't take the jabs. You couldn't visit loved ones in the hospital if you weren't fully vaccinated whatever that means and on and on. We tend to memory hole this stuff know but it should not be forgotten.
DeleteI'm not gonna be like some and deny those things happened. Perhaps some of that could have been avoided with better early pandemic messaging, especially around the "most vulnerable".
DeleteBut I will say this... and I think I've been consistent on it. We were in a bad place, scared and without much guidance. I choose to believe both Admins made mistakes, but from good motives. Even when they lied. I'm sure they were trying to avoid a total panicked meltdown.
Now as to forcing ppl to get the vaccines, yep, we did that too. Just as I was, and assume you were too to go to school. No one was making a case as to why we forced and mandated vaccines in the past and that was fine, or at least accepted for the greater good, and this time it was bad.
The military... let's go back to Vietnam and the draft. We mandated all sorts of shots, vaccines and more. Which may have been bad. But for people to say, as they did, we've never mandated vaccines in the past, was and remains false.
Military personal, kids in school, adult school workers and health care workers all faced routine mandates for vaccines starting in the 1960s.
Compared to the other vaccines the covid vaccines were the most massively expedited in human history. Rushed many would say so while what you're saying is true and we've kind of come to accept it the real bone of contention with the covid vaccines was mandating everyone take something that was literally ready for the marketplace in what a few months. Many were just not comfortable with that aspect of it but they were pilloried as being bad citizens killing Grandma. It rather quickly became apparent which were the high risk groups so the question of was there a compelling need for everyone to take it got shunted aside. It became more about moral symbolism imo.
DeleteThought of something else. Let's posit for the moment that it's an inexorable mathematical law that only a really small percentage of those who get the covid jabs and boosters would get myocarditis then strictly from a mathematical pov this amounts to a kind of deadly lottery. Again from the pov of the math the more people you force to get the vax the more people will get the myocarditis. That very small percentage amounts to more people with vax injuries when you crunch the numbers because millions are then involved..
DeleteWell Z-man... you are completely right on the speed of vaccine development for the mRNA-Covid vax. Lots of legit reasons though.
DeleteThe polio vaccine took about 7 years of work by Salk and his team, after about 40 years of foundational science. The mRNA took about 11 months of work after about 35 years of foundational science.
Two main reasons delayed the polio vaccine. One, Salk had to grow live cultures, harvest it and the figure out how to kill it. This took time. Then, he had to struggle for funding, which primarily came from the March of Dimes public charity. He did not have government funding to hire more people to speed up the process.
We had massive human testing of the polio vaccine. Over 1.8 million people were used, primarily children because they were the most vulnerable. Think about that. 1.8 million ppl, mostly kids.
But we said YES! Yes to experimenting on our kids.
The Covid vax did not rely on private funding, so it was helped by the government $$$. It was a different type of vaccine, so no cultures were needed to test and study it. Technology undoubtedly help also, speeding up the process.
Was all of this good? Did it produce a good result? Did we step on people's rights?
I suspect the answer to all of those will rest on two foundations.
Our views of technology and two, how we think about our personal rights as they relate to other people.
Some people used to say "my unalienable rights end when they negatively impact others".
I wonder if that is still true today.
My Body/My Choice? Seems that only applies to abortion.
DeleteSo my thing is this. Being pro-vaccine does not automatically mean supporting a vaccine developed in 5 or 7 or 9 months and brought to market. Besides this I also mentioned the myocarditis associated with the covid vax. Let's say it's only a very small percentage if you support government any government mandating this (more a past issue right now) a certain amount of people are going to get the myocarditis. So you damn well better have some kind of government compensation program for the vax injured since you're literally forcing it on the population.
Theoretical discussion.
Theoretical discussion... So I know a person personally who became famous for a series of brain strokes/bleeds as a result of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. She almost died and has been left permanently disabled. Just Google covid vaccine, Las Vegas, brain bleed to read about it.
DeleteShe received nothing from the feds.
Children affected, or dead from the testing of the polio vax also received nothing from the feds. Because, as it is to this day, the feds have protected manufacturers from vaccine liability.
There were over 100K kids who were given live polio vaccines in the 1950s by mistake, but because that was not about development, they or their families did get compensated.
As a country we long ago decided that we'd live by the Star Trek Wrath of Khan adage, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one... or few."
I get people don't like mandates. No one does. And that's fine. But people should not say, as many did, the US has never used mandates for vaccines.
Since the 1900s, all the way from school boards up to the feds, we've had vaccine mandates.
Skepticism? Yes. Inaccurate statements? Not so much.
Reagan started that.
DeleteMy understanding was after the Emergency Declaration allowing the use of the new covid vaccines technically speaking they were still under clinical review with more trials for at least two more years. That's dubious right there to attempt to mandate something still under clinical review which trials weren't even finished yet.
My friend works in NYC and his boss literally harassed him into getting the vax. He developed a blood clot in his eye which required surgery. His eye doctor directly stated it was due to the covid vax. Not J&J one of the other two. I believe NYC was mandating it at the time. Again no compensation from anyone. Are we surprised?
Pondering but there are two groups of people imo. Some oppose all vaccine mandates. The other group doesn't but feels the covid vaccines were developed way too quickly and for that reason alone should not have been mandated. Foundational science notwithstanding Covid was simply too new a disease to churn out a vaccine in just a few months. Put another way this group is not against all mandates just that this one didn't feel right.
DeleteAnd I'm okay with this... "Put another way this group is not against all mandates just that this one didn't feel right."
DeleteBut many did not make that distinction. They started making all sorts of uninformed statements.
So here we are...
Trump's obsession with Canada and the escalating trade war. Trump says Canada wants the benefits of being a state without being a state. Behold the idiocy of Trump on full display! Even if the far-fetched became reality and Canada became the 51st State by all accounts Canada is a pretty liberal country and would probably go strongly Democratic. Trump would be hurting his own party. To the list you gave before Dave I would add dementia.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Vaccination-Protects-Against-These-Diseases.aspx
ReplyDelete"Two unvaccinated individuals have died from measles in Pennsylvania, marking the first measles-related deaths in the state in 35 years. This highlights the severe risks associated with not being vaccinated against this highly contagious disease."
Then there is the blogger over "there" that bragged he sent his kids to
a house where they had measles so they could be 'naturally' immunized.
"Multiple large observational studies have found that routine adult vaccines are associated with a reduced risk of dementia, with some showing risk reductions of 25% to 40%."
Measles I always think of that Brady Bunch episode.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Mr. Trump didn't get all his vaccines?
Maybe Jr. wants to bring the old diseases back? Restart the leper colonies?
ReplyDelete