First off we have to put a checkmark in Obama's corner. He gave the order for the use of force last Friday to free Captain Richard Phillips from those Somali pirates. He gets a kudo or two in my book but somehow Jimmy Carter would've f****d it up.
The Winter of our Conservative Discontent - Beth has had it with liberals, you can't change their minds she says but before we go there we gotta look at our own camp. IMO the fiscal conservatives (FCs) want to take over the Party and purge us social conservatives (SCs) from the ranks. OK, maybe not soapie and Patrick M but the ones who pull the strings do. The FCs don't just want to stop moralizing about things like abortion, rather they want to moralize or mainstream abortion so as to talk about other more important things. Now as I blogged recently when you take the social issues off the table there is less and less that bonds us FCs and SCs together - economic policy, military campaigns and overall patriotism is basically what you're left with, kind of a thin gruel like eating the same thing everyday. Here's where the FCs are wrong though. I'm an idealist not just about politics but Life in general, even if our politics were correct Life could still suck. Put another way you need spirituality, conservatism has to be about moral values too. One of the SCs' focus is doing the right thing, the FCs would add nothing wrong with that but such right choices need to be freely made in an environment of maximum freedom. Whatever, we could have the right economic policies tomorrow, ultimate victory in Iraq and all the rest and still have the usual laundry list of social ills, divorce, abortion, drug abuse etc. In short how can you be a conservative and not talk about spirituality, about moral values? Social conservatism is about preserving traditions, not about saying psychedelics are good for you, that's libertarianism. So before I can respond to Beth's points we need to define what conservatism means, what does it really stand for? with so many strains of conservatism today it's hard at times to know exactly what it is we're fighting for and conversely before we take on liberalism we have to know what that stands for too, what precisely are they fighting for on their side?
And that pretty much explains the Republican dilemma, what is conservativis,? Ask 10 peopla and get 10 answers.
ReplyDeleteJoe, you are making the mistake of assuming Republican = Conservative, that right there is problem #1.
ReplyDeleteConservatism to me is a consistent philosophy, one that makes sense both fiscally and socially. I won't go into detail on it tonight, I may end up writing a whole commentary at my blog about it.
A few things I will say here, because you do mention some important things, such as it is imperative that we as conservatives get our act together first, is so true. We conservative get a lot of criticism from RINOs who think we need to set our principles aside for the good of a party. This is absurd of course. Republicans doing the same stupid things that Democrats do does not make it right. Republicans not being conservative is just not cool.
Your second point about having to figure out what liberals stand for is also an excellent point, and one that I wish I could understand, because I totally don't. Best as I can tell, their philosophy is that the government be as large as it needs to be to pay for every vote the Democrats get.
By the way, you mentioned Patrick M's name here, and you don't think he wants to purge the SCs from the conservative movement, but that is untrue, in my opinion. At his blog, he now has made a rule that he will delete any comment made that mentions abortion, because no good can come of it. Patrick M would gladly get rid of SCs from conservatism, so I am through with his blog.
I'm assuming Patrick M will ALSO delete any pro-choice comments too, yes? IMO when conservatives start disagreeing with each other too much it dilutes the very power of the movement. Take National Review, for years THE magazine for the conservative movement. For the last few years they've been criticizing the War on Drugs, they're pretty much for legalizing all narcotics so if you're the average conservative you go "what are they nuts?" Fighting drugs used to be a cornerstone of the conservative movement... God there's so much more but IMO liberals are far more united in their movement but we have as yet to take lessons.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair yes I think Patrick would delete a pro-choice comment just as much as a pro-life one, but my point when using abortion in discussions is to show the inconsistencies of their arguments.
ReplyDeleteBut as you point out, we can't even convince fellow conservatives to see our POV, so sometimes I feel like giving up trying, but then I get re-energized into thinking it's too important to stop trying.
I've been wondering though, can you be for abortion or pro-choice as they say and still call yourself a conservative? I think herein lies the problem, it's libertarianism they're espousing and because it sometimes shares some of the same positions as conservatism it gets lumped together. NR saying it should no longer be a crime if the masses get narcotized, no way in hell that's conservative, libertarian yes but not conservative. It's a problem just coming up with a working definition but imo WFB Jr. became a little loopy at the end.
ReplyDeleteSocial conservatism and it's tenets have been defined including the ten most important stances.
ReplyDeleteIt may be that libertarians want government out of their lives..libs want government 'helping' everywhere, and sc's want government out of their gun life and into the life
of pregnant woment. Dunno, probably oversimplified?
For me it is as I'm libertarian on porn and prostitution for instance, not really the business of the government for the most part imho but abortion involves the taking of a human life who just happens to reside in a pregnant woman and that makes it into a feminist issue I guess but the act itself compels me to take the SC position without qualm. I'm very proud of my pro-life position more so since I don't apply social conservatism across the board all the time as in the two issues I just mentioned above so there must be a good reason I'm pro-life no?
ReplyDeleteWith regards to porn, prostitution and let's throw in gay marriage for the hell of it, if these involve consenting adults all around then I would take the libertarian position as well, they are not hurting anyone afterall, it's just people pursuing happiness yada yada.
ReplyDeleteBut as Z-man points out, abortion is much different since the unborn child does not get to voice an opinion or get to decide their own fate. And people like Z and I just can't wrap our brains around the idea that this is an okay way to think.
To me, conservatism is about the government's role being limited to what the Constitution says, let the freedoms we have give the individual the ability to succeed (recognizing that they also can fail, but that they can keep trying) and also saying that with freedom comes responsibility, and the government's job is to bring justice when there has been wrongdoings. And as a pro-life conservative, I simply see an unborn child as a life that deserves the same respect and rights as you and me.
For me the main issue, the ONLY issue is abortion the killing of a human being and that's why it's different from the other issues Beth and I just mentioned. For some reason libs lump all of 'em together but they ain't the same. The fact that the fetus lives for a time within its mother for me does not make that into a feminist or women's rights issue but because of the biological situation it does have the effect in many people's minds of pro-lifers sticking their collective noses into other people's lives. To use an analogy outside my house one morning there was a mother yelling and screaming at her daughter getting ready to go to school and when I yelled back at her she said to mind my own business. She was also practically physically abusing her own daugther on the street and so her argument was false and so I threatened to call the cops and she went away. Not the most exact analogy for some maybe but the point is intruding on women's reproductive decisions is a false argument
ReplyDeleteIMO
Actually it is a good analogy, I think if a citizen knew a child was being abused but did not report it, and the child dies, they aren't accomplices or charged with anything, but people might frown on them for not doing the right thing by the child and helping the defenseless child from abuse. But hell, try to prevent extreme abuse (to the point of death) of a child in utero and you are labelled an extremist.
ReplyDeleteSigh. Inconsistencies again.