Saturday, November 05, 2016

The $15 minimum wage

Not being a doctrinaire hardcore conservative/libertarian the idea of some kind of minimum wage always made sense to me but with this liberal consensus of late that it should be raised to $15/hour across-the-board I'm tempted to chuck the whole thing out and leave employers the hell alone. This is what happens when you try to intellectually compromise with liberals ("yeah some kind of mandatory bottom makes sense") but you're thinking very low and go slow over time and eventually they want everyone to make what a bus driver makes. Entry-level burger flippers at McDonald's: $15/hour and so we'll see how many clerks your local McDonald's franchise hires. Fair to strong bet longer and slower lines, angrier customers and some places closing down altogether. It's not an idea whose time has come, it's an idea whose time should never come.

45 comments:

  1. IMO, $15/hr cannot fly. For one thing, wages for a particular skill set vary widely depending on location and whether rural or urban. That is why immigrants do all the
    picking of crops, at least out west. In Wyoming, for example, the minimum wage is $5.15, but the state average
    is $22.62. Obviously the difference lies between the young
    kid's first job, say delivering parts to service centers and the guy out in the Thunder Basin running the 15 ton per
    scoop coal crane. Missisippi, as far as I know, is the sole
    state with no minimum wage (which could make it exceedingly low). I've been around the block a few times with libertarians who say pay should equal the work done, which
    is a doggone iffy proposition..how do you compare a skilled
    maintenance guy who keeps everything running and is on call
    24/7 with the ivory tower marketing guy who spends 30% of his time in the can reading the daily paper? Setting a national limit on wages, profits or prices is impossible without ruining the economy.

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  2. Gov. Andrew Cuomo of NY supports as do the labor unions. You are a pragmatic liberal and I believe Obama doesn't believe it should be that high. I think for Cuomo and most libs these days minimum wage and living wage are interchangeable. Yeah the pencil-pushers always make the most.

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  3. Must be a sign of age but I remember one of my first jobs at an electronics/appliance retail chain and the minimum wage was at $3 and change in NYS. A bus ride was 60 cents and the morning paper a quarter.

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    1. Yeah, what happened? I started in a shoe warehouse at
      $1.44 and bought a pretty good '51 Ford for $100. Bought a used tire for $0.50 and it exploded later in
      the day. Overall, we had it pretty good, no?

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    2. I remember when a good brand new car cost about 8 grand and a Cadillac cost maybe 22 grand. Now a new Honda costs as much as a Cadillac used to cost and you go in for an airbag inflator recall sooner or later.

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    3. You remember nickel candy bars and no stores sold
      lottery tickets?

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    4. Lost in the shores of time but yeah. My friend and I were in one of them big Target stores recently and right around the corner from the reading glasses were assorted sex gels and lotions right in the open. My inner church lady said well isn't that special.

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    5. At least that's not as embarrassing as standing at checkout while the clerk gets on the microphone, "I need a price check on Preparation H, please"

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    6. Even without the price check just putting your item on the counter with people on line. Can't someone off in a corner just brown bag it to you like a drug deal?

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  4. I guess you're voting at the crack of dawn tomorrow after your hash brown and McMuffin.

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    1. We vote in the local big Fair building. As of late,
      I've been going across the river where they make me
      a nice waffle, lots of butter and four crunchy bacon
      strips. Which last well through the comic section of
      the paper. I vote for everything from judges to animal
      control officer, so the old gals running the district
      know me on sight. Maybe get a prepass? Interesting:
      the Mrs. is a pole watcher (with three training sessions) for the Dems, while the GOP poll watcher is
      a guy with cataplexy, wears a helmet in a wheelchair
      and routinely goes sort of cataonic. Sign on back of chair says 'Don't call 911, I will return to Consciousness shortly'. Got give him big credit, tackling life at its fullest.

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  5. Guy at work got angry at me and said why don't I like Hillary? I said I don't like either of 'em and sitting it out is a legit option in my book. Politics and work don't mix but people never learn.

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    1. No. Got an e-mail from a model railroad supply company. CEO urging me to vote for Trump. Because
      there are so many people that don't pay taxes and we
      have to make up for it on our returns. E-mailed him
      back about a certain billionaire that didn't pay taxes and bragged he was smart. When you get older
      you notice that recommending books, movies or candidates lessens your popularity. I'm thinking the polling places will be tense, maybe some gunfights...
      how about Yonkers?

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    2. We'll see. I kinda like the old way: the booth the curtain and your conscience.

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  6. I see that the McDonalds idea of serving breakfast all day
    has worked out pretty well for them. I will sometimes order
    bacon and eggs at a café, when in the mood, but a MacMuffin
    and hashbrown instead of a quarterpounder and fries at mid day seems pretty peculiar. Like, try biggie sizing a hashbrown.

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    1. But as far as I know you can't have a hamburger for breakfast. Do they still have that 30 minute time rule?

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    2. Good point. I know several people who wouldn't mind
      a burger, fries and soda at 6AM..heck, me for one.

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    3. Personal gripe: my wife orders vanilla ice crème and
      or vanilla shakes. Always. They might have blueberry, mocha, pecan, raspberry, chocolate chip,
      caramel, pineapple, and cocoa mint...but always,
      "I'll have vanilla, please" What's up with that?

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    4. It's like with cold cuts when I worked behind the deli counter for a few years the same old women would come in and place the exact same order ad infinitum, usually say a 1/4 lb. low-salt ham and something else. Dunno, is it ocd?

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    5. Absolutely. I go across the river a couple times a
      week at 6AM to Hazels Good Eats (voted best breakfast in town 3 years in a row). Mel, the manager (whose longer moniker is Melinda) comes over with a cup of coffee and asks, "The usual?"
      One of these days I will surprise her.

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    6. They say one of the best ways to battle depression anxiety and stuff like that is to stick to the same routine everyday. Bang the crumbs out of the toaster feed the cat go for a walk......

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    7. You could end up as a philosopher: It is said that Immanuel Kant was a bachelor of such regular habits that the good people of Konigsberg would adjust their clocks when they saw him stroll past certain landmarks. As he pondered during his walks he figured that space and time are forms of our sensibility, predating both the Mandela Effect and
      the CERN multi dimensional calculations. Now days
      he would be busy twittering somebody, no doubt.

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    8. I like Kant. He said people often do good things but for the wrong reasons. Makes you think.

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    9. Must confess I've never understood Kant...or Hegel,or Kierkegaard, or Schopenhauer...or the Mandela Effect.

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    10. For me Rene Descartes is the worst. He begins innocently enough with solipsism which basically says you and your mind are the only things that exist and the outer world and everything in it is simply a projection of your mind. Then he comes up with a concept of his called the evil demon or something like that and the idea is the demon is really setting up the illusion of the outside world and everyday life for your imagination. Like I could be hammered on gin and not even think this.

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    11. I'll give him credit for Cartesian coordinates . You never hear of Kantian coordinates. Closest to that is the kid in math class that says, "I kant do dat".

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    12. I can google philosophy all day. I found the problem of hell discussion interesting.

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    13. Was it conjectural or conclusive? IMO, the problem
      with philosophy is the lack of data. But it is necessary to apply logic to cosmological questions
      that defy experiment. Like Monty Python....

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    14. You said recently why don't I become a philosopher and believe me I could. I could write down my deep thoughts all day and turn them into books even but the bottom line is how do philosophers make ends meet?

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    15. You need catchy titles. "The World As Will',
      Critique of Pure Reason', 'Either/Or', 'Beyond Good and Evil', 'Thus Spake Zarathustra'....
      ...Lost In Civilization ain't bad.

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    16. Again where did Kant's income come from? Also were all those books or works bestsellers in their own day? Good potboilers for a beach read.

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  7. Perhaps you can resolve this philosophical paradox that has me a bit stymied. Since at least 300AD, Christianity (and in part, humanity) has posited that Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Eg. Greed = evil. The economic and business community posits that a free enterprize system is the best system in terms of creating wealth and providing opportunity for growth. Eg. Greed = good.
    Aristotelian logical syllogismic analysis would find that step 1. Greed = evil, step 2. Greed = good, and it follows therefore that evil = good. As you ponder the power of philosophy over your brandy, give this one some thought.
    Try to avoid the numerous loigcal pitfalls . Me, I sip mine and watch an episode of 'Doc Martin'

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    1. Well that's on a par with Lust is also one of the 7 Deadly but we're told a healthy libido is important. Pride is on the list of 7 so if you're overly proud of your accomplishments is that a bad thing too? I define Greed as wanting more money than you need for a comfortable and secure life kind of like Gluttony.

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    2. Guess I'm in good standing. I take no pride in my
      gluttony.

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  8. Couple of things, 1) why stop at $15? Why not raise it to $30 or $50??

    2) the problem is not the wage. The problem is with the monetary unit. The Federal Reserve note (or dollar as it is widely known) has lost over 90% of its value since 1913 when the Fed was enacted. The current melt value of 5 90% silver Washington quarters (1932 - 1964) is $15. Think about that. And so once again the issue becomes a red herring. Just like the smoking bans on private businesses wherein the argument became one between smoker and non-smoker with the business owner getting swept under the rug, here to we have this ridiculous band aid on the cancer which is the devaluation of the currency.

    Hell, you're even hard pressed to find copper pennies (pre-1982) in most of your change you get these days. It's Gresham's Law where the bad money drives out the good.

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    1. You're right why stop at 15? The sky's the limit. I've a general knowledge of economics but never understood how even thirty years ago a brand new average car cost $8,000 and today the exact same car might cost $22,000. I mean it's not like the average American income has increased all that much to keep pace.

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    2. Inflation. When the Fed prints money to monetize the debt or infuse it into the economy all that happens is the unit measurements become greater.

      As an example, it makes no difference if you cut a pizza into triangles or squares. It is still the same amount of pizza. Or, take a rug for example, it makes no difference if it is measured in inches or in feet. The rug is still the same size.

      Dollars (or Fed Reserve Notes) are the measurement by which measure the goods and services which makeup the economy. More dollars swirling around doesn't mean more goods and services it just means the price of the existing goods and services has gone up.

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    3. In other words if it weren't for the Fed I'd probably be able to buy a new house by now, new car......

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    4. The US has been pretty lucky on inflation. It peaked
      in 1979 at 14% (and I bought a house at 9.4%). The last few years of Obama have seen .5,2.9,1.7,1.5,0.76,0.73%. Considering many countries that is pretty low. Your problem, Z-Man
      is that cars have gone up since 1980 from an average of $7200 to $33,300; your real wages have
      stayed the same during that time. So, we can't blame the working man. During that same time period,
      corporate profits rose 3590%. Hmmmm

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    5. That's basically the prob in a nut.

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  9. No it isn't low. As with most government calculations and reporting the figures are wholly disingenuous. Those numbers are based off the CPI which dismisses such necessities as food and energy.

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    1. My financial advisor thinks so. When I retired 13 years ago, she set up a fixed annuity that pays out
      $10,000 a year and some other investments that grow to make up for the loss. My portfolio overall has
      gained in that time, despite the $130,000 payout.
      Note: a non profit financial organization not only
      does that, you have the satisfaction of not paying
      owners and shareholders- it just goes back into the
      organization.

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    2. http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/us-inflation-rate-hits-2-year-high-consumer-prices-climb-in-october/10002105/

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  10. https://mises.org/library/many-failures-cpi

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    1. Mises hates government and loves big business. Sort of a toss up, but I prefer to not have Wells Fargo
      run a nation.

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