Sunday, February 07, 2010
How much should you criticize your own side?
First off I have to admit I do it on a fairly regular basis myself but then again they make it easy. I mean when you have Savage the other night saying Toyota's current problems were caused by some kind of corporate conspiracy, a sort of war games to do in a competitor something has to be said. Ditto for Rush who had to spin the Haiti relief effort around to it's gonna show Obama to be compassionate and humanitarian and will help him even more among African-Americans. What does this have to do with the price of onions? it'll only get the Oxy talk going again. Then you have your simmering tensions between the SC's and the FC's usually over abortion with the FC's taking offense at the SC's always waving a dead fetus around in everyone's faces but I don't know how you can discuss it otherwise in the end, it'd be kinda like talking about gay marriage and leaving out the anus (oh I know it's so much more but just being a little Aristotelian here). FC's tend to lump all SC's together but there are varying gradations of social conservatism. I myself find gay marriage to be unpleasant whereas I find abortion to be repugnant, a violated sphincter is preferable to a, ok no getting around it, a dead fetus and so...When Judie Brown of the American Life League said that studies show that married couples who once had premarital sex with each other have higher divorce rates than those who didn't well I don't navigate those waters. Same thing when James Dobson of Focus on the Family interviewed Ted Bundy only to "prove" the point that porn makes men into this so I really don't wanna get that far away from land ya know? There is much in the conservative movement not to like and I can't totally refrain from criticism of my own side, that'd be hard. It's like waking up with a woody, you have to go with the moment. The links I've chosen show the full range of conservatism which is why I chose them, agreement not being a prerequisite as it is at alot of blogs to get a link going (Opus Dei - sheesh!). So really the Question Before the Board today is when should we criticize our own side? but also how much is too much? It's not an easy answer or issue for me, there be those who be team players and those who don't even like to be on the same team. For me it has to do with those uncharted waters again. Now all of us are perfectly capable of a brain fart every now and then and if you think you're not believe me we're gonna find something but Pat Robertson has a string of 'em so it makes you wonder. There are uber versions of both Left and Right and everything in between so take it away.
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I criticize the Right when I think it's warranted. This is not the time for blind obedience!
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't seem proper to go out of your way to make a fellow conservative look bad in my opinion, you can question without throwing them under the bus so to speak.
ReplyDeleteIf representatives of the party can't even abide by their own platform, time for self reflection is warranted. And, if it gets ugly...well I guess that's how we separate the men from the boys.
ReplyDeleteCan't stand the heat??? Get the hell out of the kitchen.
Let's face it, when Rush says something stupid it's greeted with polite silence like when your uncle says something radical and you just quietly shake your head and leave the room. It's a family thing, keep it in the family. I think in the case of Rush and Savage they've been on the air too long and don't know what else to say, stay too long at any one job and you turn mental.
ReplyDeleteSarah Palin on the other hand, I've had a minor thing or two but there's really nothing here to hate per se even though I haven't jumped on her bandwagon. The hatred of her is strong but it's equally vague, what is it? Many people will say they love her, many will say they hate her but press the haters and they probably can't give you a reason why (because all the left-wing pundits hate her?).
I tend strongly to agree with Beth on this. Just talked about Rush, I just think we need other spokespeople is all, some fresh blood but I think in the end you kind of gotta stick together. Rush has seen better days but the thing with conservative critics of their own side is I think they do it for a reason. In many cases they become darlings of the left-wing media and when the msm likes you something's wrong. David Frum attacks Rush and so he gets to write some cover story for some major newsweekly. Another one says his party should embrace gay marriage and so he gets some ink too and I think in all these cases they just want to get invited to the right Manhattan cocktail party. Meghan McCain fits this profile in spades, though she says she's a Republican or a conservative or some such animal she spends far more time it seems taking on her own side. Dunno man it's tricky.
ReplyDeleteI actually don't get the chance to listen to Rush because of being at work, so I really cannot say if he is a good voice for the Conservatives anymore or not, but I think why the left hates Palin is precisely because so many on the right love her.
ReplyDeleteAs for when it is okay to criticize your own side, when someone's arguments go against the basic principles of conservatism, then I say by all means call them out!
Maybe in Savage's case he's trying to be interesting. Now picture yourself as a radio host and you pretty much have to be talking for three straight hours at least with breaks for commercials thrown in of course. Used to be known as diarrhea of the mouth but as for his Toyota conspiracy theory things are pretty bad when you're the only one to subscribe to your own conspiracy theory.
ReplyDeleteTo me, Rush is more representative of the modern day GOP than of traditional conservatism. Like they, he too pays lip service to conservative values. But when it comes to electoral politics...well all that virtue goes right out the window. A vote for McCain is NOT a vote for conservatism (NEO-conservatism maybe but most definitely not the real deal conservatism).
ReplyDeleteI'd caution Beck in this regard too. He's cutting it a bit too close on the giddyness of Palin shiznit if you ask me.
Yeah, I remember everything Bush came out for Rush came out for too especially with Bush's ideas at the time for immigration reform which tended to be liberal. He's a shill like Hannity whereas Beck is more independent.
ReplyDeleteInteresting blog Z-man.. good job.
ReplyDeleteI criticize my side, when I see an injustice. But my roll in life is to criticize liberals.
& you do it so well. On balance I think what Beth and you are saying is it's ok to criticize your own side every once in a while but it's far more important to criticize liberals. Constant criticism of your own side sets up a divided house and liberalism wins in the end.
ReplyDeleteI disagree completely. The constant emphasis on bashing liberals is a complete waste of time. Who are you convincing? Liberals love liberals just as progressives love progressives. By pointing out the obvious of their ways, you're not convincing anyone. Their loyalists aren't going to suddenly swear them off and those on the otherside of the political spectrum ALREADY know they're liberals and so they're not suddenly surprised that a liberal invokes some assinine liberal policy.
ReplyDeleteLiberals are liberals. Progressives are progressives. They inherently make bad public policy decisions. We expect this from them which is why it ought not be some big surprise when it occurs.
Hannity has made it his hallmark and he looks like a one trick pony GOP cheerleader hack for it.
The greater emphasis ought to be placed on your own party's elected leaders. For FAR too long the emphasis was put on the opposition party and look what the hell happened. You had Arlen Spector, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Charles Grassley, Arnold Schwarz...(sp???), Charley Crist, Tim Pawlenty, George Bush, and on and on and on drifting portside.
Constant internal reflection is a means of purging the party of those members that do a disservice to the brand and make it difficult for the truly conservative/libertarian Republicans to have their voice be the predominant voice.
Excellent point as always Soapster, and McCain as the last GOP nominee is also proof. I still recall you and I trying to tell DD2 not to focus on "Anybody but Clinton" because we tried (in vain) to make him and others like him see that a lib is a lib and they aren't all in the Democratic party, either.
ReplyDeleteThe other aspect of that "Stop the Hillary Express" bullshit and the "Stop Obama Express" bullshit that subsequently transpired is that it left the movement conservatives amongst us asking one very fundamental question....
ReplyDeleteWho the hell is focusing on the congressional seats????!!!!
In short no-one was. And they paid dearly for it.
Gotta disagree here. Sure bashing liberals won't change liberals' views of other liberals but what I'm talking about here are the moderates, the true ones anyway, the independent crowd who are usually seen as the key to any election. Convince them if no one else and already we're seeing it. Obama's approval numbers are way down and a large part of it has to do with those middle-of-the-roaders seeing the Tea Partiers have a point imho. To criticize liberals is simply to lay out the facts in the hopes that the general public will consider them and change their views accordingly. I really do think the constant criticism of Obama since his election has changed the whole political landscape. A year ago the major liberal political newsweeklies were sounding the death knell for conservatism, now it's Obama is a disappointment. The political tone in the msm has changed markedly, no easy feat but you can give enormous credit to all the tea parties and townhalls that went on.
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying but it is the mindless liberal bashing and not holding your own side to certain standards that makes us lose credibility.
ReplyDeleteBeth ya gotta bash liberals every chance you get. If we didn't we'd probably be suffering under socialized medicine right now.
ReplyDelete