Certain thoughts form in my head sometimes while watching the news, not nice thoughts either. They kind of come out of the political id somewhere and so I saw a couple days back President Obama at the podium with some well-dressed, poised woman off to his side who was just overjoyed it seemed to me that the bill just passed restoring federal unemployment benefits for about 2 million Americans who've been out of work for more than 26 weeks. House vote 272-152, will add a cool $34 bil to the deficit and debt but hey. The spin: Republicans are being their usual harsh asshole selves. But wait a minute, getting back to that woman by Obama's side the other day she can't find work anywhere? I'm sure there's a deli who would hire her, some department store and so the question needs to be posed to the jobless: are you willing to take a job that you hate? Is it that you really can't find work or you can't find something that you like? Had a department head once, a young guy who felt unemployment insurance was a form of welfare but this other chef was a hardcore Dem and so they got into this political discussion one day and the chef's position was kinda you should plan on using it some day because in his words "I'm paying into it." I was out of work a few months myself back in the day and had credit card and other bills to pay and the reason why I took anything I could get was the simple motivation: FEAR. I never went on welfare or took unemployment bennies precisely because I took some jobs that I hated. All were on the lower end of the pay scale, one I liked but the rest was I had to do what I had to do. This extension is going to foster the culture of dependence on government even more since as was apparent during Obama's press conference the whole stigma of getting a check from the government for doing essentially nothing is pretty much gone.
Finally a word about hatred on the Net. Just yesterday I was glancing over at Pam's blog and for some reason known only to Octopus the subject of Mad Mel brought out all his hatred for bluepitball practically calling blue a wife-beater. While probably not legally actionable it walks right up to the edge. I never got this. I mean I get the passionate, the heated debates but the visceral hatred for your political opposite is just beyond me, over my head and it's not like this is something new. It's been going on for YEARS. You know the funny thing about my Andrew Breitbart/Shirley Sherrod blogs is I think I came out fairly strongly against Breitbart so instead of finding common ground, something libs always say they want if only we conservatives would cooperate, it brought out some issues about ME. It's fucked up.
Z-man: I’ve been looking for full-time work for almost 2 years. I was a Controller in the Automotive industry for over 20 years--that will tell you how difficult my “search” has been. Any way, I’ve been working part-time at a Motorcycle/ATV store since I lost my job. Trust me, I’m being paid peanuts compare to what I used to make, plus I have no company car, gas card, company credit card, or any other “fringe” benefits that came with my former CEO position. I’m a peon, in the grand scheme of things. BUT, it’s a JOB and it’s all I could find, so it’s better than nothing. We cut back on everything, even got rid of our truck. But you gotta do what you gotta do--at least to my way of thinking.
ReplyDeleteI would like to dispel a huge myth that’s floating around out there. Employees do NOT pay into unemployment; the employer does. Employers pay State and Federal unemployment taxes, the employee pays NONE. So, when someone says that he paid into unemployment--he is misspeaking.
I don’t have a problem extending unemployment maybe another 3 months over the normal 6, but when we begin to extend these benefits for 2 years, I think we are walking on thin ice because we aren’t doing anyone any favors. One of the reasons is because the longer a person is out of work, the harder it is for said person to get hired. A prospective employer doesn’t look fondly on gaps in employment history. Also the max, at least in Pa, a person can “make” on unemployment is approximately $2K per month and that is TAXABLE income. If you break that down it comes to about $9/hr - 40 hr/wk. You mean to tell me a person can’t find SOME type of job for at least $9 or $10? Heck, Wendy’s hires at $9/hr!! Granted, Wendy’s would suck, but you mean to tell me there aren‘t other jobs for $9 or $10/hr out there? Kinda makes me beleive that some people would rather sit home and collect a check rather than take a lower paying job.
(PS I'll comment later on the hate/fighting thing. We're going out for the day. Be back tomorrow)
I do believe there are people out there out of work who are not willing, it's out of the question for them, to take a job they believe is beneath their dignity and job skills. It's perfectly understandable but not realistic and that's why we took those jobs we did Pam and when I saw that woman beaming next to Obama I couldn't help asking this question. Fact is as well intentioned as welfare and unemployment bennies are it still fosters dependence and I believe many times it happens subliminally. The person may not even be aware of it ("well I've been looking") and probably only applies at places in keeping with their own self-esteem. So in Democratic parlance they are looking and that's all that matters. When I heard the 2 year thing I was like oh boy not good!
ReplyDeleteThere's so much to munch on in your comment Pam that I feel the need to double-commen but especially the part about employers not wanting to see gaps in your resume. I myself once had a gap of only about 2 1/2 months, no more than 3 and a potential employer questioned me about it. I was annoyed about that at the time and felt it was unfair, I mean if I were an employer I'd have the attitude that shit happens so if they even focus on small gaps how much more so those big gaping holes caused in part by overeliance on unemployment insurance and now extensions to that? It might sound good politically, it might be good politically but you're not doing the out-of-work person any favors in the long run. What would a potential employer care if the government was generous and kind-hearted to you in extending your benefits? all he cares is that you haven't been working for x amount of months. Excellent!
ReplyDeleteOver at Pam's blog and for some reason known only to Octopus the subject of Mad Mel brought out all his hatred for bluepitball practically calling blue a wife-beater.
ReplyDeleteWhile I have had my differences with BluPitBull, I am totally in agreement with him on this issue.
I think that Octo has gone WAY to far overboard here. And I think that Pam should not be tolerating this as long as she has been. I was totally surprised that she has.
This goes to show you that Libs will be Libs, the attack that we have seen here has been without any cause at all on Blues part. But this is so typical of the Liberal's way of acting.
I can see you judgmental people kicking an ole homeless veteran out of your way, to get into Starbucks to get your MocaTalkCrapAboutEverybody SUPER-SIZED!
ReplyDeleteZ-man: As a Manager who was in charge of hiring, I would question prospective employees about lapses in their employment history. I never encountered one that was out of work for 2 years, though. To be perfectly honest here, I do believe I would wonder why someone would not take ANY job rather than just sit at home. To me it shows initiative. If a person is willing to sit home and collect a check then there could be a possibility of laziness.
ReplyDeleteQuick story. My husband is a Foreman of his company. A guy in our neighborhood has been laid-off from the same field—construction/sheet metal. This man, I assume is collecting unemployment, however, he is working at a Subway in our local Wal-Mart. My husband’s boss (the owner of the company) told my husband he needed to hire another guy. My husband hired this guy because he was willing to supplement his income at a Subway at the local Wal-Mart where everyone in our community could see him! To US, that shows a good work ethic and he’s willing to do what he has to do to take care of his family.
I have to be honest and say I don't have much empathy about being out of work because quite honestly I don't know what it is to be out of work and unable to find a job. Doing what I do it just isn't something that happens to me.
ReplyDeleteLast year I did lose a job (as part of a Khmer-Rouge style purgation). I put in an application with the state the same day. For about the first five weeks after that, I was only able to pick up the leanest kind of homecare hours, until the baby's case opened up. And I stayed there for several months (such is the speed of state beaurocracy) until I finally got a yea or nay from the Powers That Be in Raleigh.
So actually I was on some partial unemployment for a few weeks. But the income limits are kind of ridiculous. If I made $133, I lost my benefits for the week. That means that I could only work about five hours before I ended up losing everything I would get in unemployment for the week. I was lucky enough that our financial situation let me do this, but I'm not sure how other people would handle it.
So I tend to hesitate before I slam people on the whole unemployment thing, because quite honestly, I have no clue what it is that they go through.
KTWO, philosophically I've been all over the map on this unemployment thing. I've never judged the homeless as Hannity has but lately judging from my own personal experiences taking jobs I hated you do have to wonder so that's where I am now. I once drove a van for a wholesale flower company for about a year and my liberal cousin and I got into a discussion about it. He couldn't understand how somebody so intelligent (his words not mine) could take such a lowly job. First off I only did that job for a year and secondly I never saw it as a career goal to be a flower driver but I was simply doing what I had to do. Seemed to go straight over his head and I told him despite the low pay I liked the job as you got out on the road alot and there were some nice scenic routes. So liberal cousin goes "let me get this straight, you took a job because you liked the scenery?" so I said of course not, that was just a byproduct of the job. You know taking jobs you consider beneath yourself builds character and you see how the other half lives and you might even pick up a few skills along the way. In my case I learned alot about driving and my knowledge of the roads I learned about back then I still use to this day. The liberal cousin, we all have one.
ReplyDeleteI guess I could say that me ultimately becoming a nurse is because I took a job in a group home-for the single reason it was marked 'no exp necessary'. It was a low paying job where you got your ass kicked a lot (literally) but we were trained to give medications out and I talked with the nurses a lot, and then I eventually decided to go to nursing school.
ReplyDeleteOf course, at that point I'd educated myself out of that job (they only had a nurse 4 hours a month to sign off the books) and it wasn't til now 15 years later that I've been able to get back to the MR/DD population. I do really enjoy them. Definitely not a group everyone can work with, though.
I've taken some shit jobs, even as a nurse, because they were conveniently located or because I needed to be working in a hurry. But I still don't feel like I can understand what people go through who are searching for months and years and can't get anywhere.
That being said, there are plenty of jobs around here cropping tobacco for $7 (and less) an hour, if you don't mind it being 115+ out in the field, and the potential nicotine sickness from it being absorbed through your skin.
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin
ReplyDeleteExcellent quote Beth!
ReplyDeleteWell to get back to my liberal cousin I don't think he'd take a job beneath his dignity and I think this has alot to do with extending those unemployment bennies, it allows people to find something that's right for them in keeping with their own self-esteem and they can still claim they've been looking. Problem being it ain't practical and by taking some pt job that maybe doesn't pay great it shows to a prospective employer that at least you've been doing something. Since the subject of the homeless has been brought up here many of them have mental issues. Also it's possible for a person to work at a low-wage job and still be living at a shelter because he can't make ends meet. I read a true-life case of this in the paper once but even in that case it shows a good work ethic which should count for something.
ReplyDeleteOf course yall would be familiar then with the Pauper Laws and the Poorhouses of England, and all the good they did for people, right? How they made it illegal to be without a job, and exploited people to the absolute maximum by putting them into virtual concentration camp conditions? I'm sure this helped lots of people to not be poor, homeless, indigent, and unemployed, while on a larger scale the Clearances and the Industrial Revolution were decimating the job market.
ReplyDeleteLet's punish the poor for being poor. It'll help them!!! Better yet, let's use them as slave labour! That's the REAL American way!
See it is the people who truly need help, such as you mention Z-man, who have mental problems, or who really need a hand that get lost in the shuffle I think of big government programs. There is just too much room for corruption and inefficiency in big programs that cost a lot and do very little to help those who truly need it.
ReplyDeleteI don't follow any conservative playbook but on this one issue of the unemployed I've arrived at the conclusion over time ("over time" being a key phrase here since it shows thought something us right-wingers are always accused of not having), I've arrived at the conclusion that a good many of the jobless simply don't want to take certain jobs and so they exacerbate their own joblessness. Speaking honestly here I've made the choice many years ago that come hell or high water I would never work at a McDonald's or be a cashier in some supermarket so yeah I can't be judgemental here but you still gotta be willing to take other jobs you hate or the way I'd put it is most jobs suck but some jobs suck more than others. As my brother is fond of saying work is supposed to suck, that's why they call it work.
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