Addressed mainly to Shaw and Saty and other like-minded folk. A few weeks back my conservative friend (see even he is confused) asked me what the Tea Party is and I gave him a kind of general answer but I was somewhat at a loss too. All I know is that it's supposed to be
a Bad Thing
and it reminds me of the whole deal with salt. By now it's a universally recognized truth that salt is bad for you but nobody explains why so we go into the store looking for low-salt items, low-sodium cold cuts but nobody really knows why. All I know is that the Tea Party has largely avoided the social issues, seems to have moved beyond the whole pro-life/pro-choice matrix whereas I think and I've always felt that conservatism without pro-life is an empty victory. So for me without this foundation the Tea Party leaves me more than a little spiritually unfulfilled. I'm not a tea partier myself but I don't have the same hostility to the movement the msm has and most liberals. It's definitely a counter-Obama movement but it really started before Obama, with those bank bailouts and folks being asked to mail in a tea bag to their representative's office. I'm also hearing about race alot but this is like an old TV Guide still hanging around the house, why not just chuck it? or maybe it's kept around for nostalgic purposes. This whole teabagging thing, that might have been mildly funny when it first came out but I was a little surprised liberals would make a popular gay sexual practice into a pejorative.
I don't want mental, emotional diarrhetic dribblings here. I want DETAILS.
People in the tea party don't agree on everything and do agree that fiscal conservatism and actual representation of the people over special interests is crucial and overdue to the point of emergency. So they don't come out with a 'tea party' platform that may divide candidates in different regions. But you can look to specific candidates.
ReplyDeleteI am most familiar with Ron and Rand Paul. Both are VERY pro-life. Both PREFER to handle it at the state level because the Constitution protects our rights by demanding most issues be handled at the local level where individuals can actually impact policy, and this has been too long ignored. However, both Rand and Ron feel that Roe v Wade was such an abrogation of the Constitution in meddling in state rights that SOME action needs to be taken at the federal level to right it.
Palin, who is another leader in the Tea Party, is also very pro-life.
Individuals vary, but most who are sufficiently conservative on the fiscal and Constitutional issues to actually garner much tea party support, at least HAPPEN to be pro life.
So what's wrong with that?
ReplyDeleteThere actually are two tea parties to be honest. There are the original tea party folks who were calling bullshit on Bush and all of his unconstitutional misdoings. These people don't need any sort of moniker or banner flying over them but they are, to be sure, the original tea partiers.
ReplyDeleteThen you have the neo-tea party folks. These would be the Sarah Palins and general neo-cons that have found an opportunistic means by which to reclaim their power. They have no real fidelity towards the Constitution or the nation's charter documents.
What a pathetic lier Obama is.
ReplyDeleteIf Iraq was Bush's war then Afghanistan is Obama's war.
I wish someone would go back a few years and run the video of Hillary Clinton on the Senate floor condemning Saddam Hussain for concealing his weapons of mass destruction. They sounded as if they really believed the intelligence that he was planning terrorist attacks and actually had the means to do it. They believed Hussain had the weapons and planned to use them but did not believe Bush had the "colones" to do anything about it. We are now at war in Afghanistan which is Obama's War. We have already lost more men there in his eighteen months than we did during Bush's entire term yet we never hear the body count or the MSM asking when are we going to bring them home alive?
Just my opinion, but the
ReplyDeleteTea Party seems united in
dislike of government spending & debt. Otherwise, they seem a
diverse bunch of folks. Ran across an old acquaintance a few weeks back and asked him how things were going.
"Great, I finally got on disability, so I can spend more time on my Tea Party
activities". I kid you not, Z-man.
Another good question is, why is Glenn Beck a bad thing? Maybe because the truth hurts?
ReplyDeleteBeth said...
ReplyDeleteAnother good question is, why is Glenn Beck a bad thing? Maybe because the truth hurts?
Right Beth, if you read some of these blogs by these Leftist anti American douche-bags, you would think that Glenn Beck were the President who has been destroying our Nation!
Beck has nothing but admiration for America, and thats why these "Progressives"
hate him so much. They hate anyone that opposes their anti American hopes and wishes.
Some of these idiots devote their entire blog to degrade Glenn Beck an/or Sarah Palin.
It's the fear of them is what I suspect.
The Tea Baggers really like to "push the envelope" with asinine ideas like:
ReplyDelete- Obama is a Muslim
- "Real" Americans are losing their country
The first bullet point has actually been a hot posting for many deluded individuals who believe this nonsense. These same idiots routinely interchange mosque with masque.
The Tea Baggers do not have it all wrong since they are against high taxes. Other than that they seem to be roused by the fear mongering from Beck, Palin, et al.
So is the Tea Party bad because some guy wears a tricorn hat?
ReplyDeleteTricorn hats are okay but wearing them with those raggedy old wigs is a bit much.
ReplyDeleteObama is a Muslim - is that in the actual Tea Party documents or just something that is associated with the whole Lipton scene?
ReplyDeleteThe Tea Baggers have documents??? That would serve them well in Arizona.
ReplyDeleteThe Green Party and Tea Baggers should join forces: the Green Tea Baggers.
There were a few Black Tea Baggers at the Glenn Beck rally lest anyone missed it.
ReplyDeleteWell played!
ReplyDelete"Obama is a Muslim..."
ReplyDeleteThe real Tea Partiers could care less if this is true as they know their Constitution and respect their Constitution which is silent on the matter of a religious requirement for the Executive branch. The latter Tea Party movement....not so much.
The J Mopper said...
ReplyDeleteOther than that they seem to be roused by the fear mongering from Beck, Palin, et al.
Can you tell me how you come to that conclusion?
I think on balance the Tea Party is a good thing even if there are a few oddballs and every movement has their oddballs. In a few years Beck may go the way of Limbaugh and then there'll be somebody else.
ReplyDeleteFolks who feel the government should provide for all of their needs, a kind of counter-movement to the tea partiers, call them the Nipple Movement, nipplers for short.
ReplyDeleteAt least out this way, the Tea Party folks are mostly old retired people. Since they are all on SS and medicare, I guess you might call them idealistic
ReplyDeletenipplers?
I don't think that most tea partiers are retired, BB, I think that is what the Huffington Post wants you to think though. It is much easier to try to discredit people than what they stand for, especially when what they stand for has proven to be a success. That is why they use the term "tea baggers", it's all a way for critics to minimize the tea party's efforts; but I'll tell you what, I don't think it is working very well, if anything the attempts to discredit them only makes them more determined!
ReplyDeleteThe ones in my area are mostly retired from what i've seen on local Tv and newspaper interviews..and I know some personally. I'm not sure about the demographics of the national movement, other than (like here) there are a lot of fundamentalist
ReplyDeleteevangelicals (and I know some personally). Don't read the Huffington Post and I would no more think of referencing them than you would of Glenn Beck.
I agree, the movement seems to want to return to the 'good old days', but since I don't learn my US history from the web or tv,
I'd think that would probably be the Eisenhower
years. I guess if you like Coolidge, you would have loved the Great Depression! All of us would like to see
government use our taxes more wisely. Nothing new there, heck look up Shay's Rebellion...
Ralphie wrote: "Can you tell me how you come to that conclusion?"
ReplyDeleteTell you what...I'll tell you how I came to my conclusion once you give me some facts that back up all of your "conclusions" you've sputtered all over the blogosphere...deal?
...and then tell us all how many blogs and blogger identities you have. If you've lost track then I understand.
Hi Z,
ReplyDeleteIt's been a Long Time, but I'm Thinking about Reentering the Blogosphere. I Think. We'll see. My Last Post was Done more than a Year Ago.
I Want to Read the Above 22 Comments Eventually when I have Time, but for now I just want to Respond to your Post by Saying that I had a Similar Frustration with the Tea Party.
I Suggested that the Sign Maker Make a Sign for me that Reads "One Nation Under God" and "In God We Trust" and he was Happy to Oblige, but it was the Only Religious Sign Made. The Rest were about Taxes and Money, or well, "Throw the Bums Out"; Stuff Like that.
I Showed Up 15 Minutes Late to One of the Rallies and this Sign was Off to the Side. No One Else Picked it Up. If I had not have Showed Up, it would not have been Carried.
Anyway, I Agree with you that "conservatism without pro-life is an empty victory." and to Focus Excessively on Issues of Money does not Send a Very Positive Spiritual Message to the World. I Participate in the Tea Party, though, because it is Quite Informative and well, the Democrats are so Out of Hand Right Now, that I don’t Even Mind Anymore whether or not a Few of the Republicans are at Times a Little Extreme in their Thinking.
I’ve Recently be Connected with Someone who Wants to Start a Prayer Group Focusing on the Needs of the Country and the Cause of Conservatism.
Anonymous is Right that People in the Tea Party do not Agree on Everything and Unfortunately they are not United on the Social Issues. Some Tea Party Groups are more into the Social Issues than Others. It just Depends where you Live, I guess.
ReplyDeleteIt's Mainly the Liberals that are Criticizing the Tea Party, Z, and Most of what they say is Unfounded.
Our Tea Party is Most Definitely Constitution Based and they do not in Any Way Discourage Religious Signs like the One I Requested. It's just that I'm the Only one who Made such a Request.
In Response to BB, I do not Feel that the Tea Party is Opposed to Disability. They are more Opposed to Obama's Expensive Stimulus Bill and Health Care Plan. Quite Anti-Obama and that I can Relate to.
Amen Beth!! in Relation to Glenn Beck and "The Truth Hurts."
J Mopper,
Whether Obama is Muslim or not is not Really Relevant. He is Sympathetic to the Muslims and not Willing Enough to Speak Out Against the Extremists and this is not Nonsense. This is a Fact.
Soapster,
Our Tea Party is Most Definitely Constitution Based and so is the One in the Next Town. I'm not Sure what Tea Party you are Referring to that's not Focused on the Constitution. You'll Also be Pleased to Know that there are a Number of Libertarians Among Us.
Beth & BB,
We have a lot of Retired Folks in our Tea Party too.
Welcome back Lista and I think you should reenter the blogosphere!
ReplyDeleteBlogging is a Lot of Work and it Creates an Obsession in me that is Hard to Control. I Wish I Knew how to Feel more Motivated in the Non-Computer Part of my Life. When should I Blog and When should I do something Else? This is a Hard Question to Answer and this is Why Sometimes it is just Easier not to Blog.
ReplyDeleteI've Become Confused too because, though I Consider myself a Moderate, I am Annoyed Enough at the Democrats Right now and at all that Obama is Doing that I Don't Even Mind it so much when Republicans are Extreme, for Right now, they have the Right to be.
As for the Tea Party, some of them are Extreme and some are not, yet when they Express Anger at Obama, I just Nod in Total Agreement or Shake my Head in Disgust.
How Can I Write as a Moderate. I'm a Little to Angry to do that Right now. That's Probably Part of the Reason Why I Quit Blogging.
I do have one Person, though (Extreme Republican and Perhaps Even Libertarian. I'm not Sure), that I do Still Argue with about Moderation, rather than Extreme. Our most Recent Conversation is on his Blog at More Thoughts on the Concept of Individualism. Surprisingly, he was Less Argumentative than Usual and I Think it was because he is Getting Ready to Leave on a Trip, yet you Might Find the Thoughts I Wrote there Interesting.
Ah yes the Griper. Actually I find extremism at times to be exciting, stimulating. Soapie has some excellent thoughts on the subject and how the word is so often used as a pejorative. Did Steven Slater do something extreme? sure but it also got people talking about their jobs. Extremist characters are more colorful than your run-of-the-mill, they stand out. I'd bet you 9 out of 10 people would never argue with a cop but I bet soapie would if there were a principle at stake.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you're Right, Z, that Extremism my have it's Place. Sometimes it Takes the Expression of an Extreme in Order to Get Someone's Attention and when Negotiating, People Generally Start at the Extreme Ends of What they Actually Want, not What they are Willing to Settle For if Necessary, yet I don't Think that Extremes Work Very Well when Actually Applied. Extremes are Often Negative and can Even be Destructive.
ReplyDeleteI Think of the Term in Relation to Negotiations Between People and One Extreme is that One Party Gets Everything that he Wants and the Other Extreme is that the Other Party Gets Everything that he Wants. Neither Option is Fair and Just and Both are Destructive to the One who has Lost. The Only Way to Truly Get Along and not be Constantly Arguing with Each Other is to Compromise. That's just how it Works.
In my Opinion, the Word "Compromise" is just as much a Pejoration as Anything. I had no Idea that that Word had Become so "Emotionally Charged" with Negative Meanings Until I Used it in the Blogosphere. This did not Used to be True.
Here's another Thought. Since I View Things so often as the Balance Between Extremes, One Extreme is Excessive Passion and Zeal, to the Point of Being Obnoxious and Forcing One's Will on Others. The Other Extreme is Passiveness and Apathy and just as in some Cases there is Too Much Zeal, in Other Cases, and it Could be Said, Far too Often, Excessive Apathy is there instead. And Apathy is a Considerable Negative as well.
Oh and BTW, I Think it was BB that had the Impression that Griper was a Libertarian, yet he is also Quite Religious and Libertarians don't Generally Support the Social Issues as other Conservatives do, so Griper may just be a Constitutionalists. I'm not Sure.
ReplyDeleteOne party getting everything they want. This is the way it goes at work, you work on their terms and you get nothing in return no matter how long your years of service. As one guy told me don't do for them until they do for you. The Labor/Management thing, I could blog all day about this but suffice to say I don't have much of a personal life these days.
ReplyDelete