This is what I find fascinating. Saty a self-avowed and proud socialist prefers the Dems and Obama over Romney and the Repubs. That's to each his or her own individual choice of course but you would think a socialist would only prefer other socialists. Socialist-minded folks in general seem to vastly prefer the Dems and Obama however over Romney and the Republicans. Now if Obama is not a socialist and for the purposes of this piece let's say that he's not AND if the Democrats are not socialist as a party either then why do they the socialists actually prefer them? It would seem to me the Dems and Obama are actually closer to socialism even if they're not actual socialists themselves else why would socialists like them so much? Moving on......
Fire up the abortion machinery
So far for my money David Brooks of PBS' Newshour is giving the best commentary. Cecile Richards daughter of the late TX Governor Ann Richards is now the president of Planned Parenthood and gave a brief speech and there was alot of talk all night about reproductive rights and gay marriage and Brooks asked San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro whether something weird was going on after all this was supposed to be economy night in an economy election and later said the Dems seem weirdly abstracted from the historical moment which is to say we're still in some kind of economic morass and they were quite deliberately focusing on those reproductive rights and gay marriage all evening. Sandra Fluke of course spoke after 10 and hers was brief too, I'll at least give them credit for getting to the point and they seem to be more aware than the Republicans that the attention span of the average American is rather short. Obama seems to have a strong socioeconomic message for the country-at-large and it is this: you may not have a job or a home but at least you can still get an abortion and get hitched to whomever. Must be some weird vibe in the ether, first Clint Eastwood and now this. The barn is burning and Farmer Joe is having sex with the cow.
So getting back to my original question if Obama is so not a socialist why would......
Because a quarter of a step forward is still forward.
ReplyDeleteI gave up ideological purity years ago in favor of attempts at progress.
But Obama's no Socialist. I wish he were.
Pretty so-so speech last night from Obama... maybe the bad employment numbers were on his mind...
ReplyDeleteEven the left leaning commentators, except Ed Schultz and Chris Matthews rated it as average.
NPR, the lefty news network, said both he and Biden were about in the middle on their facts... nothing totally true, or pants on fire false, but a lot of spinning.
As for abortion, I too find it interesting that it has been such a big issue, although they framed it as a right to choose.
There must be some polling on that, or they'd have ignored it.
The most striking thing for me was that it felt like I was watching a patriotic rally.
I've never seen Dems go all red, white, and blue in support of the troops... you've got to ask why the GOP did not do so after doing that for many years in their conventions...
"Because a quarter of a step forward is still forward."
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY!
& the most pathetic thing for me was when Biden said Romney didn't thank the troops in his speech. I think people who argue Pro-choice (BB, Saty and the conventioneers) really don't know about the tone or how they come across. They think they come across as moderate when to alot of folks it simply comes across as pro-abortion. Pro-life is always a more powerful positive message than Pro-choice and that's because choicers no matter how eloquent and articulate are ultimately forced to defend a negative.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how a person having the right to choose is a 'negative'.
ReplyDeleteZ-man... most of the conservative commentators said he blew on that front as well...
ReplyDeleteDo you think the GOP would have given the Dems a pass if they missed mentioning the troops?
I really had to stop and think about things, you know, I had spent most of my life, since the time I was about 15, associated with the SPUSA and at the time it was the right fire and brimstone for me... but as I got older I think maybe I got a little more pragmatic, am I more interested in SOME kind of an improvement or am I going to hold out for the whole enchilada and nothing but the whole enchilada? I mean there comes a point when you have to say jeez I'm hungry and a half a sandwich is better than nothing.
ReplyDeleteSo that was how I made the decision to go from the SPUSA to the DSA. I got to feeling like all the insistence on purity was bogging things down, that little steps could be made that would eventually add up, rather than wait for some magical rainbow filled day when the sun would shine extra bright and someone would come and announce that everything we've been fighting for has all come to fruition on this one day in the expanse of the universe.
I would rather look back and say, yeah, okay, 11.5 inches closer to the goal is still closer than we were.
It's not satisfying and it's not acceptable and it's not in any way shape or form a reason to stop fighting or to stop working for more and better, but it's still moving, and that's something.
"I fail to see how a person having the right to choose is a 'negative'."
ReplyDeleteIt's not the act of choosing or the ability to choose that is the negative, it's what is being chosen. It's like with drugs, say your position is to legalize drugs and that may be a perfectly valid position from many angles and yet what is being chosen, namely drugs is a negative from a social and health standpoint. This is what drug legalization advocates fail to see or get, even if their position is the best one it still involves negative social repercussions so you can only go so far with it. Same deal with abortion there's all those little dismembered legs and arms that get in the way of a totally positive and healthy position.
No Dave I don't think the Repubs would have given the Dems a pass if they failed to mention the troops and it was one of the few positives imo of the convention, glad to see all those veterans caps in the audience. All things considered and I'm not saying this because I'm partisan but the Republicans put on a better convention. Thematically they hit all the right notes in terms of American values and smaller gov't and it was a more professional affair. The DNC to be honest was a mess and they oscillated between giving the social issues prominence but then felt compelled to mention the auto industry a kind of abortion and cars convention if you will.
ReplyDeleteI think you're skirting my point though Saty and that is you don't like the Republicans because they're less socialistic than Mr. Obama. Obama and the Dems are more in the direction of where you want to go (i.e. a socialized system) and if I were Obama I'd be a little troubled by the fact that so many socialists like me esp. if I state over and over again that I'm not a socialist. I'd be like am I sending out the wrong vibe or something?
ReplyDeleteLook I gotta go but last point about Pro-choice,
ReplyDeleteI might defend your right to be a prostitute or porn star but I'm not really proud of my position.
It really doesn't have anything to do with him being 'more of a Socialist' as it is the lesser of two evils.
ReplyDeleteYou make it sound like there's something Socialist about the Democrats. I wish there were, but there isn't. Trust me on that.
At least, though, they're not the party that's pissing on women's rights, that's anti-gay, that hates immigrants, that thinks corporations are people, that thinks people without insurance should die and who only REALLY care about rich white men.
Perhaps the Libertarians are so Ubermenschified that they feel that they're too good to vote if there's not a candidate that's 100% what they want out of life, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to go with a diet Cheerwine if I can't get a diet Dr Pepper.
Until the day Bernie Sanders runs for President, I have to make do. It doesn't mean that I buy into everything, or actually, anything, that the Democrats do. It means that I'd rather sell a kidney than see the Republicans in office.
Does anyone else find it odd that one of the main things Obama and other Democrats have been running on is the pro-abortion issue and phony war on women hysteria yet they have Cardinal Timothy Dolan give a Life prayer at the DNC?
ReplyDeleteHere is what he prayed.
“Thus do we praise you for the gift of life. Grant us to defend it. Life, without which no other rights are secure. We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected,” Dolan said in prayer delivered immediately following President Obama’s address accepting his party’s nomination..
So they voted God back in. I just can't believe this, well actually I can... But, something tells me the fight is not over to take God & Jerusalem out again.
Lots of them are upset about this, it just makes my heart so sad to watch.
The noes had it, but the teleprompter told the speaker to go ahead and give it to the yeses. Weird... This was one time we had complete transparency for once!
I love how these commenters manifest out of nowhere to make comments that don't pertain to either the post or the comment thread.
ReplyDeleteI'd say I was upset and that it makes my heart sad to watch, but mostly I just think they're idiots.
I agree with her that one of the main things Obama and the Democrats have been running on is the pro-abortion issue. Here's what I mean by tone and how the party doesn't get it on abortion. OK so they're pro-choice as a party but there's a difference between a celebratory position (e.g. civil rights, clean water and air) and a regrettable one (e.g. you have the right to be a prostitute or porn star or use drugs). All through the DNC festivities their position on abortion was one of celebration with the keynote speaker for their wing you could say being the current president of Planned Parenthood. You can trace the development of the pro-choice movement over time and not that long ago it seems there was the arc of at least being personally-opposed to the practice. You don't hear that much anymore, they're pro-abortion tone deaf.
ReplyDeleteSat you just said at the top that Obama is at least moving in the right direction as you see it by at least a quarter. What direction might that be? and why is he moving in that direction?
ReplyDeleteIt's the direction that's not this direction:
ReplyDeletepissing on women's rights, that's anti-gay, that hates immigrants, that thinks corporations are people, that thinks people without insurance should die and who only REALLY care about rich white men.
And why is he moving in that direction? Because he's not a Republican.
So I've been thinking about this like you're somehow trying to turn Democrats into Socialists. Not possible. You say 'they're MORE Socialist than...' But in reality they're not Socialist at all.
ReplyDeleteIt's like saying that the 5'11" 89 lb runway model is 'fatter than' the 5'11" 85 lb runway model. In reality both of them are emaciated. It's a false comparison, and its really intellectually dishonest.
Democrats tend more towards being socially liberal, which is not the same as being Socialist. Don't get me going on fiscal policy.
Frankly, I'm sick of the left's line on how Obama had to deal with a messed up economy to start his term. When is this man going to accept some responsibility for what HE has done? His list of accomplishments can be listed on the back of a postage stamp, starting with the16 trillion in debt that he has managed to accomplish. And I more sick of that Blame Bush line and I don't buy it at all.
ReplyDeleteThe lefties don't want to admit that the only reason he was elected in the first place was because he is black! And everyone knows that , they may not want to admit it, but it's true.
So let's put all those social issues like abortion and gay marriage on the side Saty it's still obvious you as a socialist like and much prefer Obama and the Democrats so they must be moving in the proper direction besides the proper direction of the social issues, in other words your direction. ObamaCare may not be technically out-and-out socialist but it's government getting more involved, more controlling and you like that. It's trending towards socialism especially when you consider the government taking over sectors of the auto industry and saying which CEO has to go and which gets to stay.
ReplyDelete& likewise we can't fire him because he's black Political Chick and that's the basic problem with voting based on race. This needs to be explored, why is Obama's support among African-Americans well past 90%? and the Democratic Party in general. Is it because they want to be on welfare, food stamps, Medicaid and all the other gov't social programs and entitlements? Is it because they see the Republicans threatening the social safety net? I don't think it's that simple as I framed it but it is puzzling.
ReplyDeleteEven more puzzling then, was Obama's 78% US Jewish vote?
ReplyDeleteDemocrats are not and never will be Socialists, no matter how badly you want to frame it in those terms.
ReplyDeleteI'm standing with my anorexic model analogy. I can appreciate that you really want to make this thing work, but it won't.
You need to go to politicalcompass.org and take their test. And then post the picture of the graph with you on it. I'm going to post mine.
I've taken this test multiple times over the past several years and I have never moved from the same place (makes me feel good to know that I'm consistent).
Now, if you scroll down that page you can see where they've analyzed statements from various political and social leaders and used that to put them on the graph. Please note the location of Mitt Romney, and then note that MARGINALLY to his left is Barack Obama.
You will never create a Socialist out of a Democrat, no matter how hot and sweatty the idea makes you.
I'm thinking a socialist, given the
ReplyDeletepositions of the major parties, would lean Democrat by default.
That's what I'm trying to tell her BB. Nowhere in my blogpost did I say Obama and the Democrats were socialists. It has nothing to do with me wanting so badly to frame it in those terms just looking at the fact that so many socialists like Saty do lean Democrat. How's this one then? I think Obama and the Democrats have socialist potential.
ReplyDeleteThe Jewish vote is just as perplexing as the black vote BB, I agree. Every time Obama pissed off Bibi conventional wisdom was that he's gonna lost the Jewish bloc when the opposite seems to happen. Maybe he can go back to his pre-1967 borders talk and sew it up.
ReplyDeleteGo look at the graph and tell me how much 'Socialist potential' you see.
ReplyDeleteWould be an interesting campaign ad from Romney, Saty the socialist prefers Obama over Romney. Chris Dodd once said ObamaCare didn't go far enough let's have universal single-payer health care. That's not socialism?
ReplyDeleteUniversal single payer health care is socialized medicine.
ReplyDeleteSocialized medicine is not 'Socialism'.
It's socialized medicine.
I feel like you're just dying to pin the Socialist label onto everything Obama, and it's just not honest, no matter how you push it.
Are we going to argue over a tube of toothpaste again? No wonder Beth moved to Facebook.
ReplyDeleteIf Beth moved to Facebook it's because her definition of 'friend' is 'someone who agrees with me'. She (once again) lost her cool after she got confronted with too much reality fact checking coming up in her face at the same time, and her already overtaxed frontal lobe completely melted down.
ReplyDeleteCmon, it's been at least 6 months since the LAST time she left blogging for good. We were way overdue.
Do you believe Republicans are racists?
ReplyDeleteNot all of them. I do believe that conservative politics do tend to favor the wealthy/landed/bougeoisie and by default that tends to marginalize minorities since they are disproportionately likely to be poor.
ReplyDeleteI am sure not ALL Republicans are racists, but all the racists I have ever known have been Republican.
ReplyDeleteOK so who is a racist more likely to vote for the Republican or the Democrat?
ReplyDeleteAre they both white?
ReplyDeleteI think that's a given.
ReplyDeleteThat a racist would most likely vote for a Republican over a Democrat in your view is the attraction here is that the Republicans are shall we say more racially-charged than the Democrats? racialism.
ReplyDeleteI read that four times and it still makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteRephrase.
That's 'cause you don't want to get it. I think you'd say a racist would be more likely to vote Republican than Democrat and that's because the Republicans are racists themselves so that'd be the attraction. Maybe you don't agree with this line of reasoning but if you do then you cannot then say but a socialist who prefers Obama and the Democrats is not doing this out of any socialist attraction or tendencies in the Democrat party. It doesn't follow when liberals are always saying rednecks vote Republican because the Republican party is racist and yet say socialists vote for Obama but Obama's not a socialist. Merely pointing out logical principles in argumentation.
ReplyDeleteEconomic Fascism: Gov't under Obama controlling the 4 P's (Product, Price, Profit Margin and People). Re Chrysler Obama wanted Chrysler's products to be revamped then the Gov't set prices on senior debt. Also controlling the profit margin for Chrysler and lastly Gov't can control who is hired and fired there. If this isn't Gov't getting involved in controlling the economy, interfering with the free market then I don't know what is. It's economic fascism even if you don't want to call it socialism.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing one flaw in your logic construction.
ReplyDeleteThere is no Socialist candidate for me to vote for.
So either I can be an ideological purist and withhold my vote (thereby doing absolutely nothing for the betterment of the country) or I can make a choice between evils and cast a vote.
If I had a Socialist candidate would I be behind them?
You bet your ass.
But I am not haute couture enough to be withholding a vote simply because of ideological purity.
I leave that shit to the Libertarians.
I think there's more to it than this. Who's further along in the socialist direction Obama or Romney? Is Obama somehow less of a socialist? How he handled the Chrysler bankruptcy, if nothing else that is the mark of an economic fascist and that's far closer to socialism than anything Romney and the Republicans have done.
ReplyDeleteYou're still reprising the runway model analogy.
ReplyDeleteThe 89 pound model is far closer to fat than the 85 pound model, but she's still emaciated almost to the point of death.
Reminds me of the Richard Gere documentary on the Buddha I saw recently on PBS. Seems when the Buddha really got his thing going and developed a small circle of followers or disciples and they were all this harsh ascetic bunch, they practically starved themselves all day and so one day they caught their Master eating a grain of rice, one grain for sustenance mind you and some got upset and left the glutton.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why we teach that renunciation for its own sake is egoism. And impossible to sustain.
ReplyDeleteGreat line from the show Supernatural on the CW. So Sam is talking about monks and a monastery, somehow it fit in the plot but I forget how and Sam goes to Dean the monks have to get up at 4AM every morning to say prayers and Dean goes "they can't get laid, they can't sleep in, a tragedy."
ReplyDeleteOh, I could so expound on that. But not now, because I have to go to work.
ReplyDeleteOur Morning Program starts with the first worship of the day, called mangal arotik. In all the temples I've ever been in, mangal arotik begins at 430 AM. In order to be there showered, dressed, and on time, if I'm going to the temple here, I have to wake up at 2AM and leave the house at 3AM.
ReplyDeleteMangal arotik is by far my favorite program of the day. Krishna and Radharani are in Their pajamas, the temple room is dark, it's all very intimate.. morning program goes all the way through til 8, but most times I leave after mangal aroti and the Nrsinghadeva prayers.
Depends on what time you go to bed. If you're like alot of olde folk and hit the hay after Wheel of Fortune then 4:30 ain't no big deal. The other day at work this guy comes in and it's only 8AM and he wants to know when the rotisserie chickens are done!! Like George said on Seinfeld once they get up at 4AM and by 3 in the afternoon they're wiped out.
ReplyDeleteHe gets up at 320 and leaves at 4. I get up about 330 and leave at 515. I try to be asleep by 9.. he usually runs a bit later, but I have to time everything out with all the medications and stuff.
ReplyDeleteYou two would be good as a news anchor team.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
ReplyDeleteI think me and Chris would make a great team. People would tune in just to see us tell each other off.
ReplyDeleteBecause news anchors often get up the same time you two do. You and the old folks who want a rotisserie chicken at 8 in the morning.
ReplyDeleteI love to be up early. I like to have my town chores done and back home by 8 latest or I feel like I've wasted my day.
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to sit on the porch about 5ish with coffee all wrapped up in a blanket and just listen to the squirrels arguing.
Even on my day off I might get up 6:30 or 7 but I'm not shopping in stores yet. God bless the early risers, say a supermarket doesn't open 'til 7 they pull up in their car around 20 minutes before, go up to the door, see that's it's locked, look confused then angry then after a couple minutes get back in the car and then go off probably to Walgreen's. My brother worked at an industrial supply place once and they came in early there too all happy and chipper and wide awake so my brother goes to one "whoa whoa whoa, slow down" and the guy seemed upset.
ReplyDeleteI like to do my grocery shopping at 6AM.
ReplyDeleteI despise those happy chipper too much Red Bull people, though, in the mornings.
Every morning I get to work right about 613, carrying a large coffee and a large Diet Dr. Pepper. I don't have to be to work til 630 but I walk in early so I can have my coffee, play a game on my phone, pull my shit into order so I can start my day. I'm verbal, I'll say good mornin how are you, but I don't want anyone fooling with me or disrupting my routine or trying to get me to be involved in some work thing before 630 (emergencies excepted). People who've been up all night and are jacked on caffiene and sugar and are way off the chain singing at me and shit are only going to get the Look Of Death and a growl.
My sister goes food shopping at 6AM too and sometimes the deli girls go can you swing by a little later as the bosses want them to set up something. When I'm in charge on the boss's day off I go to work early too and have a game plan. Touch up a little paperwork before clocking in, we don't have the Dick Cheney NWO thumbprint-scanner yet and then I'm basically quiet because the work is rather overwhelming for the day and you have to structure it in your head. I feel certain tasks should take a certain amount of time, let's say this should take no more than an hour and everyone else is by the coffee machine bullthrowing. I like things under control first, be on top of things before slacking is even an option and I'm not a slacker. Everyone standing around in the mid-afternoon with nothing to do collecting a paycheck, I'm like why not send me home?
ReplyDeleteyeah, I have a fairly serious morning rhythm. First med pass is the toughest and I come out of report at 645 like I've been shot from a cannon. Don't talk to me unless you have to until I get through with it. I judge my whole day by how efficiently I make it through; if I have 5 people and I'm done by 8, I'm having a super banner day. 830 is more likely and that's when things slack off a little for me and I can be conversational.
ReplyDeleteQuite often out for breakfast and paper at 4:45 AM. One morning the police were there. These 24 hour places routinely get some folks staggering in when the bars close.
ReplyDeleteI scanned the headlines waiting for
the waitress to finish her statements to the officers. Some
guy just couldn't coffee up and staggered into the parking lot, got in the wrong car and complained when it wouldn't start.
In a huff, he started off to find his own, but tumbled down a 100 foot rock embankment. ..the fascination of little towns...
When I worked in radio I did a lot of overnights. That 3a-5a slot was called the dead zone.
ReplyDeleteThe Art Bell Hours. BB you go to bed after the Wheel of Fortune too or do you watch a penguin documentary first?
ReplyDeleteI go to bed after the 'Big Bang Theory' rerun. ..and open a book.
ReplyDeleteJust finishing up Nicolas Wade, amazing how a dash of genomes, paleoanthropology and prehistory can put you to sleep in a hurry...
Paleoanthropology...
ReplyDeleteyeah, I dunno how much I'd be into all that, pithecanthropus and the Leakeys and Olduvai and so forth.
Seriously, I've never been all that much into it. I have a basic working knowledge of it but I'm not real interested in it. I have always had a soft spot for Mesoamerican civilizations, but we're talking just a few thousand years back if that.
Now, let's talk about some paleo-arthropod-ology (I made that word up)
and I'm awake all night.
Speaking of arthropods, for my birthday we went to the Museum of Life and Science in Durham. Now, it's not like the big museum in Raleigh (where I had a brief shining moment volunteering in the palaeo lab) but it was fun. My favorite part, believe it or not, was the insect exhibits. Z, I took a picture of the Giant African Millipede especially for you (seriously, your name was mentioned at the time). They had giant cave cockroaches, 3-4" long with wings, who will presumably inherit the earth, and a species of African cockroaches who were practically trilobites and had me totally ecstatic. They also had a tarantula as big as my hand and lots of other interesting bugs and I got pictures of all of them.
ReplyDeleteToday's my anniversary (22 years since the day we met, 20 since the day we got married, the man is going to be reborn as Lord Brahma I am sure after burning off so much bad karma having to put up with me) so I'm not gonna blog on it today but I will, because I want you to see the giant millipede.
Guy at a party told me about crytozoology BB and he looked up some things on the Net. Twenty years married to the same guy Saty, I thought as a notorious liberal you were supposed to get divorced by now.
ReplyDeleteIt is so tough being a notorius liberal. Been married 48 years,
ReplyDeletebut I suppose I'll have to divorce to lower my standards to the rate
among the evangelicals...