Monday, December 17, 2012
The Newtown Speech - Obama and Faith
The President's address last night at the interfaith prayer vigil in Newtown CT was by turns excellent, moving, inspiring, powerful, poignant and even theologically advanced. As a conservative at odds with the president most of the time it seems these days it was still possible to have a certain amount of pride yesterday evening. The flourishing of faith in small towns like Newtown is heartening to see even in the wake of such an unspeakable tragedy and only the most secular liberal would have been uncomfortable last night. Folks there aren't damning God to the heavens or asking the immemorial question where was He? I've never been to the quaint bucolic town of Newtown myself but have visited quite often the surrounding communities many times on day trips. New Milford up Super-7 where they recently redid some of the main drag and there's their berry farm in the springtime, Stew Leonard's at Danbury a really great food experience, the Danbury Mall of course off 84 and Dick's Sporting Goods a new addition, New Fairfield and Candlewood Lake/Squantz Pond, the winding roads of Sherman......it's become one of my favorite places to spend the better part of a day and there's just something about the name Aunt Hack Road a side road off of 6 in Danbury. When you like a certain geographical area you develop almost a mystical connection to it speaking of which every now and then I'd go to the Marian Shrine dedicated to Our Lady of Lourdes just off of Rte. 202 downaways on 25 which actually right here at this main intersection you see signs there directing you to Newtown. This shrine is a beautiful little place to go with a nice grotto with candles and religious statues and of course the Stations of the Cross on a gentle hill with a large dark wooden cross of Christ at the apex and then lo and behold you're almost in somebody's backyard. All of this section of upper Connecticut is quite country with the exception of Main Street in the City of Danbury which even though there's a definite touch of squalor here there's something nice about it too and then there's the nearby town of Bethel with a quite large literal supermarket of wine and spirits. I guess I'm one of the few conservatives who liked Obama's speech last night judging by what Hannity was saying just now on my drive over to the library. I watched a good part of the memorial with a couple fellow conservatives and even they seemed to be softening and they're no fans of the administration. I'm saving alot more for the Comments Section but I really think it was a defining moment on the eve of his second term.
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The president met with each of 20
ReplyDeletevery sad families, each privately.
IMO, given the circumstances, that would be more difficult than declaring war or fighting with congress. I'm thinking it may have
affected his address later on in the evenening. The thing about Connecticut I can't grasp is that although it has a high population density, it comes across as rural.
How do they manage that?
Lots and lots.. and LOTS.. of money.
ReplyDeleteMany parts ARE rural BB. They actually have a few pretty nice areas in Conn, and other East coast states as well.
ReplyDeleteZ-man, the speech was good, I'll grant you that, BUT, just wait till we find how much he wants to control guns now. It is going to be an all out attack, wait and see. He will not miss this opportunity.
Zman said
ReplyDelete"The President's address last night at the interfaith prayer vigil in Newtown CT was by turns excellent, moving, inspiring, powerful, poignant and even theologically advanced."
Oh please stop the Drama! He whiped the trars away from the wrong side of his eyes!
The Tear Ducts are on the inside of your eyes, not on the outside!
Busted!
Crying is a human emotional response. It can be faked, good actors can do it. It also cannot be
ReplyDeletestopped in a real situation. Technically, we note;
The lacrimal gland at the inside of the eye is primarily responsible for producing emotional or reflexive tears. As tears are produced, some fluid evaporates between blinks, and some is drained through the lacrimal punctum. The tears that are drained through the punctum will eventually be drained through the nose. Any excess fluid that did not go into the punctum will fall over the eyelid, which produces tears that are cried.
The excess does not always exit
from "the inside of your eyes,
not the outside "
Dunno Joe, I think if Obama keeps it on the level of banning assault weapons and some other common sense restrictions he can find common ground and get something passed. If however it's a handgun ban he's after he's gonna go right up against the SCOTUS and his own pro-gun Dems. I've more common ground with the gun control lobby than your average conservative but one gets the sense they're not being totally honest and I think they want an allout ban but can't really say that yet. Bottom line is though I never got the conservative position that somehow it's your God-given right to carry around a Rambo-style assault weapon. To do what shoot ducks? protect your liquor store?
ReplyDeleteYou need to get you head out of the jar, Jarhead. Really.
ReplyDeleteYou know when I drove that flower van for the wholesale shop in White Plains I may have passed through Newtown without realizing it. I've been to Bethel many times down Rte. 53 and explored some of its side roads to make my driving quicker and one time came across a place called Crazy Vin's GoGo Bar (no longer there apparently, I checked)and on the map Newtown is a stone's throw away. I went through Redding and Wilton and Weston too and alot of it begins to look alike and blur in your mind years later and somewhere around here is the quaint Mark Twain's Library where the hours are like two days a week from 2-5 or something. I remember some beautiful trout stream I passed once and a guy trout fishing. I love Ridgefield, it's like Bronxville/Piermont up north. I brought up Dick's Sporting Goods at the Danbury Mall in my blogpost for a reason. According to reports the shooter Adam Lanza was there three days before the attack and wanted to buy a rifle but was rebuffed when he refused the mandatory waiting period and background check. No offense to Dick's but given the times we live in wouldn't it have been nice if someone there had reported this at the time and maybe prevented a tragedy?
ReplyDeleteBeen meaning to ask BB since I recall he's somehow not spiritual or religious so given all the religiosity and faith displayed at Newtown which I think is positive how do you BB cope, what do you fall back on in times of crisis/despair or just plain murkiness and don't say Jack Daniels and your pipe.
ReplyDeleteDid you see that particular Dicks
ReplyDeleteSG is responding ?
Faith and religion are very positive, I was impressed with the
ecumenical gathering at the site.
Cope? Different folk cope differently. Met a paster I knew out for early breakfast one time:
said I thought the hardest thing in that job had to be consoling parents of a dead child. He started explaining how difficult it
was...then started crying. No matter how ya spin it, it is still
gut-wrenching sad.
Sorry folks, but there no Oscars for this performance folks,every time this scum-bucket is on I have to mute the TV I just cannot stomach it!!
ReplyDeleteI saw that last week when he was speaking. He had a very long pause as though he was attempting to pull up a few tears. It obviously didn’t work as his eyes were as dry as could be. He just dabbed at the corner of one eye hoping for good effect.
You can say what you want or send all the links that you want to, but here is the story... believe it or not... Tears are produced by the lacrimal glands in the eye. The lacrimal gland lies at the upper, corner of each eye.The tear ducts in a human eye are located on the inner corner of the eye, next to the bridge of your nose. His eyes were dry and he was sticking his finger on the outside of his eye. Maybe he should have took some acting lessons from some of the hollyweird snobs that he hangs with.
NOPE, I'm not convinced either.
Anyone with half a brain could see right through this phoney. And it's obvious that there are lots of half brained people here in this thread, who would most likely believe anything this phoney president does or says. But Dry Tears Simply Don’t Cut It, not with me it don't. I doubt this man has the ability to cry. You must be sensitive and caring, but his upbringing was nothing of the sort. He was a tool for his communist parents and grandparents to brainwash to even care about pity..
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IMjcAyUrSNE/UNEyO3tbpCI/AAAAAAAAUE0/xik8cAmkDFY/s640/.48+Adam.jpg
ReplyDeleteAmen to that
ReplyDeleteHow often do we hear after one of these tragic shootings that the guy was a loner/anti or nonsocial but by all accounts of modern psychiatric models of criminal forensics JD Salinger should have been a serial killer or at least mass shooter. I mean not only was the guy a recluse but he also drank his own urine. After any such tragedy we always get a heavy dose of stereotypical commentary and that's why we never get to the truth in such cases. Of the couple psycho-types I've come across in my life, at work I'd say they were the opposite of being nonsocial. Just a kind of sidedigression here.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe what I'm reading (^). Anyway another angle heavily covered is that of mental illness but maybe that's a distraction too. Maybe the real problem is Evil. CT Gov. Dannel Malloy said on the day of the tragedy evil came here but how do you define that? If he was saying the Devil was behind all this that's an interesting angle if you consider that the Devil's ultimate goal is to garner as many souls as possible. So by this calculus he gets one soul, that of the shooter and 20 kids automatically go to Heaven and a safe bet the other 6 adults. That needs to be examined. Huckabee also said something interesting that lack of prayer in public schools is what caused this BUT did the killer wake up that fateful morning and say to himself because there's no prayer in the public schools I just gotta do this? I've one more comment......
ReplyDelete......now I'm not really familiar with Sandy Hook/Newtown but the school I'm assuming would be on some type of main road with at least occasional traffic. Don't know who else was around at the time but I've often pondered what are the odds of somebody doing something radical like this and not a soul sees a thing? Ya got a young guy pull up in a school parking lot and I'm assuming he took the weaponry out of a trunk or whatever and then he broke a front glass part of the front of the school and nobody's seeing this but you can't run a red light or make a rolling stop without being pulled over. It's an interesting question, say you're driving along and see this I'd probably go with you'd have to run the guy down or something and of course there's a very good chance you could be shot but he's gonna take out the whole school. I like the spirit though of the adults who unfortunately lost their lives, some went down fighting and lunged at the guy and self-defense is such a basic conservative value. How often do we read in such a case that nobody does anything? You're going to die anyway so do something and that's exactly what they did even though they lost their own lives protecting others. Their bravery and self-sacrifice is inspiring and actually sets the model and I'm reminded of Todd Beamer on 9/11. You throw the textbook of what to do in such a case out the window and you do what you have to do and that's what they did:)
ReplyDeleteOdd thing about economics that we cynics note: after every massacre,
ReplyDeletegun sales skyrocket; every time a company lays off workers, its stocks go up. ..economics, the dismal science..
I have some random thoughts on the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteFirst, why did 20 kids have to die in order for the country to have this conversation? Who was the lunatic that let the assault weapons ban expire the first time around, and why?
Second. People talk about criminals getting guns. Well, you know, quite a few of these mass killers, they got their guns legally. Didn't the guy in Colorado have 6000 rounds of ammo, all legal? And this kid, his big crime if you wanna call it that in this regard was that they were his mom's guns. It's not like he bought them from the local gang or something. It's a lot of times legal guns by people who weren't previously criminals.
Third. Why do 'sportsmens' catalogs sell things like ghillie suits? Ghillie suits are not for hunting deer, they're for hunting people. You wanna hunt deer, you can get in a deer blind. You don't need a ghillie suit for that. There is only one reason to be wearing gear like that, and it's not because you're craving venison. And what about silencers? You afraid you're gonna wake the neighbors with your midnight deer hunt? Cmon, I don't think so. Why are we even selling in the public market shit that really only has one purpose and that's to kill people?
Three. Mental illness and insanity are not mutually interchangable terms and do not refer to the same thing. A person may be one without being the other. That being said, I don't think an insanity defense will hold up in court for any premeditated murder.
Four. Aspergers, which is what I understand this kid to have, is not a mental illness. It's on the autism spectrum which to my mind would put it more in the developmental disabilities category. By all accounts he was remarkably intelligent (which goes with Aspergers) but had a lot of social adjustment issues. I don't know more details than that but I do know that Aspergers is not commonly associated with violence.
Five. I am about sick to death of hearing conspiracy theorists do their collective circle jerk (excuse my vulgarity please but seriously) over this stuff. My beloved Chris was (possibly still is) convinced the Colorado thing was all a set up to get people's guns taken away and I am hearing people say the same thing about this, that it's all a huge government plot to create a situation in which everyone's every last weapon is going to be taken away. Cmon, people, 20 little kids, really?
Six. Who is this idiot who recommends people run at the person who's shooting at them? Little kids should rush the shooter, really? Look. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Little kids should be taught duck and cover, not run at the person firing the semiautomatic weapon. Who ARE these people? And can't we take them out back and put the mother of all asskickings on them? I read just a couple lines of pure solid bullshit trying to blame FEMINISM of all things by saying that little boys aren't taught to be protective, and they should have charged at the shooter. Right! Yes, little boys, when someone shoots at you, run at them! Jesus, are they on the dope? Who ARE these people!?
Seventh. Today was our unit Christmas supper and I rocked some fruit kebabs in a carved watermelon shell. I was also disturbed by this 'night before Christmas' thing being circulated in the office that reflects this recent shooting and has God announcing that He's taking His nation and His schools back. I mean, bully for you and all, but we ALL live here. I swear next time we have a blessing before the meal I'm going to be the one who does it.
Enough. I have worked too many hours (just got off a 12) in too few days and I'm off the next two days and I'm gonna sleep, and go play with my horse, and take naps, and do laundry, and eat leftover fruit.
And BB, you evil liberal you, you have chased Beth away with your evil liberalness.
8th. Who give a dig dong about all of your resents? Certainly not me...
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to read the posts from the imbeciles on the left who will bame this tragedy in Connecticut, on our Gun Laws. There aren't any facts here, just simply fantasies and allegations from the usual conspiracy lefties.
ReplyDeleteWe're still waiting for answers like was this guy on psychiatric drugs? They dope up kids at a young age and they become like robots and what if some info comes out bad for the drug companies? so if there's a coverup it's not so much along the lines of Chris's theories but more like drug profits being negatively affected. Saty I'm not aware of who these people are who say kids should charge the gunman but the school principal and school psychologist did and I think they did the right thing. The mental health thing, as I said it's devolved to the point this modern forensics profiling that if you don't have X number of friends you pose a potential societal threat. Gosh is this the BEST psychiatry can offer us???
ReplyDeleteI've been going through this in my head but I'm still vague on how police got the first calls about what was going on. Was it somebody in the building on a cell? was it someone outside seeing something develop? Back to my strategy that if you see some young guy pull up in a school parking lot carrying a hunting rifle to the front door what do you do? Well if you're a motorist yeah it's the right thing to do to get on your cell and call the cops but by the time they respond the psycho will have commenced his killing spree so sometimes it's simply up to John or Jane Q. Citizen to take action. Hit the bastard, use your Taco Saty and be the judge of how hard to hit him but getting back to these conspiracy theories you know what these people never do? NAME NAMES. Like I want NAMES of the mysterious controllers pulling the levers and hitting the switches to activate the microchips in the brains of the would be shooters. Of course there are no names because there's no there there so please Mr. Alex Jones and co. if you don't have an iota of evidence please STFU already!
ReplyDeleteLastly (for now) about our entrenched gun culture look I get it about Self-Defense. I'm not against a liquor store owner having a pistol under the counter but there's parts of the Right who become almost sexual with their toys. They caress them lovingly and stroke them and polish them and oil them and judging from the commentaries I'm aware of at least two conservative bloggers who own them. When it comes to conservatism I'm more attracted to the economic stuff frankly but I have to say the Right's tenacious clinging to guns gives it that creepy element and drives people away.
ReplyDeleteThe person who says the kids should have run at the shooter is Megan McArdle from Newsweek. Now I think that a grown person if they are defending themselves or someone else and think running at the person with the gun is the best thing, that's fine, they're grown, do what you're gonna do. But not to be teaching kids to be doing that. And as far as me and the Taco, I got ram bars for a reason and given the right set of circumstances I wouldn't be all that afraid to use them. But six year olds being taught to run at a shooter? No.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes I totally agree with you on these gun people who are over the top about them. Everyone knows there's a Freudian thing about guns, every girl who's ever dated a cop or a military guy knows it, there's just a thing. And plenty of people, like here, guns are cultural, everyone's a damn hunter, that's fine or whatever. But guns are romanticized, sexualized, and they have been turned into some kind of Americana symbol and the conspiracy theorists get off on trying to convince people that the government is coming to get your guns, and really, it's not true, but people who own guns are much more likely to turn to those guns at the smallest provocation, and of course, as they love to say, they're not afraid to use them. They should be, but that's a different story.
I do notice that there's been some kind of tacit agreement with this view; Discovery has dropped Ted Nugent (and stated they will not rerun the episodes they do have) and several other gun-toting romanticized shows have also been cancelled. I haven't seen any of them because we don't have regular TV, but it does show that there's been kind of at least a beginning towards a paradigm shift, long overdue.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if there's a correlation between this kind of mindset and the beginnings of the demise of the Republican party. I'm just thinking out loud with that one, but the idea might be having some merit; that the country as a whole is moving towards a more liberal mindset, in all ways.
As another sidedigression I've been thinking about our nation's psychics, you know the John Edwards and Sylvia Brownes ALWAYS chock full of the most useless information like your late Uncle Charlie had a hangnail or Aunt Bertha who passed kept a Puerto Rican parrot but NOTHING the country or law enforcement could actually use like I'm getting some bad vibes from this section of the country or about that person so we can throw in psychics with conspiracy theories as being so much shit. OK...
ReplyDeleteSo I just tapped into Michelle Malkin's blogpage and Pat Buchanan's, actually Pat's was milder than hers but just a taste of the post-Newtown right-wing commentary and you'd think after the massacre of 20 innocent children they'd budge a little from their position, I mean just move your right-wing buttcheek a little over but NO they're digging in more, the old bunker mentality. THIS is why nothing's gonna happen even after Newtown.
ReplyDeleteZ-Man, regarding "parts of the Right who become almost sexual with their toys. They caress them lovingly and stroke them.."
ReplyDeleteI believe you have identified one of the eight types
of gunowner. the Small Dick Compensation type. Good catch!
I'm thinkin' if a well-written essay outlining your pressing need for an M-4 Bushmaster .223 Cal with
ReplyDelete1330fps muzzle velocity and 60 grain dum-dums with 1200 ft-lbs
flesh-shredding impact energy were required, we'd see a fewer number.
Malkin, Buchannon, LaPierre can be expected to dig in, but I dunno here, its almost like being an 'enabler' for kindergarten massacre lovers....
To be fair Sat the Left entrenches themselves over some social issues too. Mention partial-birth and late-term abortion in general and it's similar to the Right's position on assault weapons which is We Have to Have Everything. That's well stated BB, have Malkin write that exact essay and if there's a case to be made it should be easy. I mean maybe ducks and geese are stronger and more dangerous these days, dunno but let's hear it.
ReplyDeleteFile this one under people say the most assholeheaded things after major tragedies. I read this in the paper yesterday and it bothered me, well you'll see what I mean. They were talking to some workers at a hair salon there in Newtown and I don't remember if the guy was just a haircutter or a manager and he went on and on about how when Adam Lanza was in that chair getting his hair cut how nice it would have been to let slip the blade and he'd bleed to death and that would've spared all those families. Wonder how that would fly in court, you killed a guy because you could see into the Future and saw a vision of a tragic school massacre. Actually this really bothers me because a guy like this shouldn't be working in any hair salon across the country, he might see YOU as a potential future threat and decide to do something about it. Somebody check this guy out please!!!
ReplyDeleteSee, that's part of that whole mentality, that preemptive mentality that fears people and things and happens to have a gun. Can you imagine, and then any little thing that spooks them they're whipping it out and firing like some kind of Rambo. That's the whole problem; when you have a gun close at hand, you can grab it and use it before you have an opportunity to think about what you're doing. That's why we made a deal (I was once on a bit of a weird tear about how I NEEDED a gun) that I should never, ever, ever have a gun. Instead we settled on the giant economy can of pepper spray that will shoot 25 feet. I can use it to feel safer (and actually I think there is some merit to that, if you're quick I actually think you maybe could incapacitate someone with a gun or slow them down) and we can all be happier knowing that while I maybe can put someone down for a while I'm not likely to be able to kill them. Actually maybe we should encourage people who want to carry guns to try pepper spray instead.. that just occurred to me, maybe it's a meritorious idea.
ReplyDeleteI just read a piece by Ann Coulter and have to say she was more mild than the usual Ann Coulter. Goes back to your point about how you express yourself people might pay better attention and have to say she gave me some food for thought but having said that what I don't get about the Right is you can still hold to her position and yet still hold that it's still the right course of action to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. If you read the link her primary focus is handguns and that's a whole other subject but WHY can't the Right just give in on the Rambo machinery?
ReplyDeleteTo your comment you see that's the thing about gun owners in general they all think they have this Godlike capacity and wisdom to discern circumstances. Geez even professional cops make mistakes!
ReplyDeleteI think that people feel like owning a gun gives them some kind of Godlike capacity, this feeling of control over their destiny, that they have an advantage over other people, but also, underneath, a fear that people are out to get them, that things are inherently scary, that people are inherently bad. Someone once told me I'm too stupid to be scared and maybe in a lot of ways they're right. They say that honest people are the more gullible because they feel inherently that other people are as honest as they are. I don't know, I like to believe that I would do whatever I could to save other people but I also like to believe that if it was just me on the line that I would let go and just chant.
ReplyDeleteOne time in the hospital (small local hospital) we had a kid who had been shot in a gang violence thing. We actually had to take a few measures to hide him; on the census board we put my name instead of his, on his door we put all kinds of isolation signs to keep people out.. and finally after we knew there were gang members actively in the hospital looking for him, we pretended he was dead (seriously, unhooked the iv, put him on a gurney and threw a sheet over him) and got him downstairs to the back room in the ICU where no one could get without passing the nurses station.
Just read a minute ago where some guy is using stand your ground to defend shooting a guy in the line at the pizza place that he got in an argument with because he was mad his pizza was taking more than 10 minutes. I mean really? stand your ground? but this is a symptom of the larger mentality, the gun is there, readily available, and why not use it? There it is, no need to stop and think that you're potentially killing some person who isn't even responsible for making your pizza. So we focus on mass killers and stuff but how many of these dumbass shootings go on every day? How many pissed off boyfriends and husbands and wives and girlfriends and people on the highway are going to get a little irritated and then just because they have it available use a gun to tell people how they feel? And then someone might die. And they use some dumbass thing like stand your ground which basically legalizes this preemptive paranoid mentality that says if you even think someone might possibly have some sort of something that could conceivably in some particular circumstance post a threat to you that you can shoot them and it's OK... well, that's basically what the problem is with owning a gun.
I really like to believe that if no one was on the line but me that I would go down chanting, not fighting, but at the same time I'd like to believe that I would defend other people with my life if necessary. So maybe I'm deluded too, but there it is.
And I do wanna make it clear that I am not against all guns. I know people who quite literally depend on hunting season to get them through the winter and there are people who have handguns or whatever, and I don't think that we should just indiscriminately go through and take away everyone's guns. I do think that there are plenty of things that don't need to be available to the general public, like silencers, and high capacity magazines, and weapons that are just barely demilitarized, sniper rifles, telescoping barrels, and items like ghillie suits that have no conceivable use except to stalk and hunt people (not animals; animal hunters wear neon orange so other people SEE them and don't SHOOT them).
ReplyDeleteI also think that no person ever convicted of a violent crime (of any sort) should be able to legally own a firearm (of any sort including otherwise legal ones). I think people with diagnosed mental illness should also not be able to legally own firearms of any sort. (That would include me.) If a person who owns firearms should subsequently be convicted of a violent crime or be diagnosed with an illness they should be required to surrender those weapons (there's HIPPA difficulties there, I know). And it should be more tedious and tougher in general to get a license or permit or whatever to own a gun in the first place. Look how many hoops you have to jump just to get a drivers license, and no, a car is not a weapon in the same sense that a rifle is. I'm just saying that we need to be sensible.
Godlike? In the old wildwest, your gun was the 'equalizer. It
ReplyDeletemade little men big. Had a friend, little guy, great guy. He would strap on his .357 Magnum and his personality would change. Potshots
at telephone poles, mountain jays
and other threatening objects. His
courage grew and he would try to run motorcyclists off the highway.
He'd go home, put his 'piece' away and become little great guy again.
Almost comparable to 'gitten liquored up' ..the old courage in a bottle? Being in the business, I
knew tons of gun dudes, and in fairness, most of them were responsible and careful hunter, target and collector types. It should be interesting what the NRA is planning to announce. With their clout and some common sense maybe (just maybe) the slaughter of
innocents may decrease.
People do snap and I can tell you that I have had times when I'm sick and I get really, really angry for no reason in particular and if you asked me why I couldn't tell you why, and if you asked me why I just threw a half a dozen dishes across the room like I was trying to win a Cy Young award I wouldn't be able to tell you. So I think that maybe it's possible that some people could have a situation like that where they're sick and do something violent and really can't explain whys and wherefores about it or even tell you what set it off. The day I threw the dishes, there was literally no provocation at all. So, reason #649 why no one really wants me to have any kind of a potentially lethal weapon and why the house rule is that I don't use power tools when no one else is home. Though that's a good rule for everyone to follow (mighty hard to call 911 when you just cut your leg off with the chainsaw). The point is that people spend a lot of time wondering about motives and so forth and I tend to think that wanting to know those things is more for us, so that we can try to rationalize the act or whatever. It's a lot harder to come to grips with something that there is no 'why' to it. It's even hard for me to know I did things, said things, whatever, that were hurtful or hateful and there was no reason for it, no provocation, and it happened anyway and quite honestly when it does I can't stop it or change it by myself and sometimes not even with help. So that's a perspective too. Why do we need to know a motive? Is there ANY possible motive that would somehow make killing 20 kids okay? Is there any kind of reason, ever, in this or any other universe, that would make us nod sagely and agree that we understand? No. So it's a waste of time, isn't it? Just us trying to make sense of something that has no sense to it at all.
ReplyDeleteI also would like to point out that the situations I described with me are very immediate and very short-term; I don't think I could sustain that kind of anger long enough to buy 6000 rounds of ammo, multiple weapons, and head to toe riot gear. I mean, that's some serious business there. When I get manic I can barely get through a complete sentence because my brain's moving so fast; I don't think I could manage anything that complicated with multiple steps. On the other hand, my last big depression in 08 was really bad and lasted for several months. I was on medication that it turns out doesn't agree well with me (and is now on my chart in huge red letters) and it made things worse. Maybe this is a clue towards the mindset of someone who makes these elaborate plans; I spent days and weeks figuring out exactly how much of medication A I had to take to keep me breathing if I was going to take X amount of medication B, and I knew down to the exact milligram how much of medication B I had to take to go to sleep and not wake up. Anyway, I didn't (obviously) but maybe that's sort of a clue in the direction of someone who can maintain a focus long enough to plan and commit something like this. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteIF I were advising the Right I'd counsel to stick to the subject of handguns and give up already on the assault weapons and high capacity magazines. Not only is this far more reasonable and you're on firmer ground but this would force the hand of the gun control lobby. They would then be forced to say whether they want to ban all guns or not and my hunch is they do. Go tell the liquor store owner down the block that he can't have a gun but that's the thing there's no budging. Whether it's partial birth and late-term abortion on the Left or Rambo weapons on the Right the Position is the Position is the Position. This is why Politics is at its suckiest nadir in history imo.
ReplyDeleteAlso this theory we're hearing alot of that these mass shooters are somehow highly intelligent, budding Einsteins that suddenly went wrong the psychobabble propounded by the experts after such a tragedy clouds getting to the root of the behavior. How intelligent can they be if they go on these shooting rampages and either get caught (James Holmes) or wind up shooting themselves (Adam Lanza)? If they don't even believe in an afterlife how are they gonna look back on their past life and deeds while a ghost and say hey I'm a superstar now, the world knows me? This theory lacks imo. I think if I may toot my own horn here as a blogger let's say you feel you have occasional flashes of brilliance, supersmart insights nobody else has and you express yourself damn well and then you look at your sitemeter everyday and it's always pretty low. Well that doesn't mean you're gonna plan and do some major mayhem so the world finally respects you. Rather you're gonna say I'm pretty talented and if people prefer HuffPo or a Kardashian blog that's their loss. Theories...
ReplyDeleteFinally conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists themselves are getting pretty scary lately. Some feel gov't technology made Superstorm Sandy hook a hard left towards Jersey for maximum damage and now the same people feel the gov't somehow controls the minds of a few select young people and sends them on murderous killing sprees. Now you can advance your stupid theories even more and say but both major tragic events shared the name "Sandy" and Sandy did hook into Jersey hence "Sandy Hook." You know once you engage in endless conspiracy theorizing there's no end, you go deeper into the swamp and then you can't find your way back.
ReplyDeleteI think that's really a mistaken thought that many on the right have.. they seem to think that the left wants EVERY SINGLE GUN taken away and you know, I haven't heard a single person say that. What I have heard is limits on ammo, limits on magazine capacity, bans on assault weapons. I think this thing that 'the left wants to take away every single gun you own' is a myth propagated by the NRA to scare people. Because really, you know, people are reasonable, no one is taking away Clem and Cletus's hunnin rifles. And honestly, nobody really wants to. They just think that you should'nt be able to buy assault weapons at Walmart, you know?
ReplyDeleteAnd now LaPierre thinks that the answer is armed police in every single school. Districts can't afford books and police departments can't afford riot gear, so I guess either we see a lot more bake sales or LaPierre foots the bill? Oh wait, now they're working out a plan for armed VOLUNTEERS? Sorry, I think that's possibly the worst thing I've ever heard. Volunteers with guns, just waiting to be the next big hero? For christmas sake.
LaPierre is pushing for armed guards at every school. Another ten billion for the taxpayers (we've already been cutting back
ReplyDeleteon teachers). But what the heck,
not a bad job, huh?
Oh, and I've said this a million times, every single time I've gotten manic I have had ideas that could be the next Unified Field Theory, the answer to world hunger, the solution for world peace, the be all and end all, and the problem is that I can't remember them long enough to write them down.
ReplyDeleteDammit.
And now for how intelligent can they be...
ReplyDeleteI dunno, if they're like me at all, I'm pretty f'n intelligent, my iq was tested once in the high 130's, but I can't count worth a damn (I have people check my timesheet at work..the other week I almost lost 8 hrs overtime cause I added wrong)...I don't think intelligence enters into it when you get sick. There are some correlations between intelligence and creativity and things like bipolar disorder, but I think when you're in this kind of sick state you really aren't thinking with that part of your brain, I mean, there's no real whys or wherefores for the things that you're doing, so it's not like there's intelligence involved. Certainly I can't come up with one single intelligent reason to fling enameled steel dishes across a room. So I'm not sure how important the fact that they are intelligent (and yes they do all seem to be so don't they, see correlation above) has to do with the fact that they do these crazy acts. Just trying to be a smudgy window into the inside, is all I'm doing.
The Unabomber was a mathematics Phd and the Aurora dude was in Psych grad school. It seems almost all these characters are young males in their 20s with a dilusional feeling of being persecuted by society. Have you
ReplyDeleteread the story by a mother of one of these type kids that has gone
viral ?
Yeah, I read it. But you know, for every one of these kids who assaults or harms someone else, there are 20 who only harm themselves...sometimes to the point of suicide.
ReplyDeleteJust for a little perspective there.
This constant mind numbing hum drum just validates the fact that the Looney Left, the Dumbs, & the Lame Brain News
ReplyDeleteMedia are insane.Why punish the innocent majority for a very small lot of sickos? This is exactly what they did with the shoe bomber, One sick Muzzie did his dirty work and millions of innocent Americian's now have to take off their shoes every time they board an airplane.
True. Not sure it validates the looney left, Since Bush signed the Patriot Act a month before the shoe bomber. A month later, Bush signed the TSA Act all in 2001. Then after 911, Bush did the Homeland Security in 2003. So blame who you want, but they will
ReplyDeletefrisk your grannie and check your shoes (and it costs the taxpayers
over $16 billion a year)
Oh so we are going to blame Bush again? Listen up numbnuts .. I wasn't blaming anyone for the Shoe thing in the airports, I was comparing the banning of guns to that to show that we punish the entire country for the idiotic things that happen once or twice.
ReplyDeleteSo get off your high donkey, put on your RED hat and go back to smoking your Cuban cigars.
Once or twice? Over 10000 Americans die every year from gun violence.
ReplyDeleteSo, Radical, just to be clear, are you for or against:
ReplyDelete-banning assault weapons
-limiting magazine capacity
-increasing background checks for people who are purchasing guns?
-limiting the amount of ammunition that can be purchased in a specified period of time?
Additionally, do you believe that persons convicted of a violent crime should be allowed to possess firearms? How about persons with a dagnosed mental illness?
Do you believe that the following items should be readily available to anyone?
-silencers
-sniper rifles
-ghillie suits
-rifles with telescoping barrels
These are all simple yes or no questions and I eagerly await your answers. Thanks in advance!
I am against doing anything that is against constitution the of this great nation. Despite all the comments made here the constitution says that we have the right to bear arms, period
ReplyDeleteLefties are Lefties, they are all nuts, except the Progressives, they are total IDIOTS, and way beyond help.
Look, here is the bottom line:
We arm our airline pilots. Our "leaders" be them "leaders" or Dictators or whatever. One way or another all of the Hollywood elite are protected by armed men. Rosie O'Donnell has an ARMED bodyguard. Why do we arm all these people are they so Freaken special? Are they more special than our children. Why is there Protection for the elite but not for the rest of us? Is it ok to be slaughter our 5-6 years olds and protect these liberal Hollywood weirdos, Basketball thugs and Football players? Don’t let the media and celebrities do your thinking. Blaming a gun for someone being murdered is like blaming the spoon for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.
The elite Leftie bunch of Democrats. And the imbecilic Progressives are do as I say - not as I do hypocrites, and Rosie O'Donnell is a perfect example ..
Disarming the innocent when the phrase, against guns, is stated. So, take the guns away from those whom are normal and create a bigger problem. Go ahead, that way there are no records of all those who decide to buy a gun from the black market.
The 2nd Amendment is in no danger.
ReplyDeleteIn the last 30 years concealed carry has become legal; wasn't for a long time. SCOTUS stands up for the 2nd Amendment. The regulations
are based on the word 'arms', so
no, we can't legally have a Stinger missile launcher, RPG,
105 howitzer. I suppose a 'strict constructionist' following the letter of the Founders Law would limit us to muzzleloaders? No guns will be taken away; doubt any will
even be banned for purchase. Perhaps background checks will be
increased to 100% and gunshows tightened. Rad, you have some good
observations. If you would lay off
the ad hominum attacks and blatant
hyperbole, you might get more attention..and some respect.
They're trying to piece together the two computers that Adam Lanza smashed before he went on his shooting spree. It seems far-fetched at first but the words "Sandy" and "Sandy Hook" were always in the back of my mind. What kind of websites did this guy visit? we know he spent alot of time online. Alex Jones has a whole bunch of material about how the government can manipulate the weather as in deliberately steering Superstorm Sandy into NJ, making a severe left hook in effect. According to some accounts I read Lanza talked alot about space aliens. People focus alot on he wrote somewhere the word "Devil" in red in a Gothic style but that may be neither here nor there. Maybe his lonerism had nothing to do with it. Maybe it was something political, a McVeigh type thing. McVeigh's main motivation was to avenge Waco, in Lanza's case if he believed in alot of sci-fi conspiratorial stuff who knows? sometimes killers leave behind very ironic clues and what are the odds mathematically that the two main tragic events of 012 involved a Sandy? it could be something else entirely but to solve crimes you almost have to think like a psycho, if you think rationally you'll most often come up with conventional stuff like he was bullied at school.
ReplyDelete& what is AG Eric Holder doing going to CT to talk to investigators? This has piqued my interest. There's nothing wrong with the DOJ getting involved but are they prosecuting something? you can't bring to trial the deceased so I wonder what that's all about. Instead we focus on LaPierre but also apparently this kid spent a hell of alot of time not only online but in various chat rooms of the suicide type, left many glaring clues of what was to come so how come we always learn of this stuff after the fact? What that wasn't enough to put him on the radar screen? Shouldn't law enforcement be following this stuff too instead of monitoring the latest Hollywood stalker?
ReplyDeleteOn to Pepe LePew. He's called for an armed police officer in every school and the front cover of the NY Post today calls him a loon. Now bear in mind his call comes after all the other school shootings over the years and even NYC Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says he was "disappointing." Why all this collective bias against self-defense? The basic problem with gun control is that criminals don't obey the law in the first place so they'll always have guns. They're not gonna go and register their latest piece and wait patiently for background checks. They get them however they get them so a school basically being a gun-free zone along with being a drug-free zone and whatever else-free zone it's an open and inviting target to psychos. You don't see massacres taking place at gun shows in other words. Pepe LePew, yeah he's the problem.
ReplyDeleteGeez, Radical, I even went out of my way to phrase my question so you could answer it easily and I didn't get a straight answer.
ReplyDeleteYou can certainly limit the KIND and AMOUNT of weapons (and accessories) that people can have without taking away their essential right to bear arms. Many of the 'rights' of the bill of rights have limitations. You have the right to free speech but some kinds of speech are illegal. You have the right to free press but libel is illegal. There are limits, and there's nothing wrong with limits.
So limiting the number of rounds of ammunition someone can buy in a specified time period, limiting the types of firearms people can buy, limiting the sale of things like silencers and ghillie suits (I have BIG issues with those things if you haven't noticed) and barely-demilitarized assault weaponry is not denying anyone's 'right to bear arms'. And rights may be abridged in certain circumstances. A person convicted of a violent crime, should they legally be allowed to have firearms? How about people we know have mental illnesses? There is a difference between limiting a right and denying one.
All those people you talk about who have 'protection'; they buy that. They go out and find bodyguards, they pay someone to do that for them. If you'd like to hire a bodyguard for your six year old I would be interested to know what your school district thinks of that. That's a completely different thing, isn't it?
As far as LaPierre goes and this whole 'guns aren't the problem thing', that's a gross oversimplification. Making guns more difficult to get won't stop people who are really determined, but it will make it more difficult. And just like cops bust hookers in the park for 'trespassing' it will provide a way to potentially stop people before they get their momentum going. I'm not sure why people become so absolutely enraged over this kind of issue. Saying you cannot have a machine gun is not the same thing as saying you cannot have a gun. And the majority of people, the majority of the NRA membership in fact, all support the idea of limiting guns, banning weapons that have no use outside of hunting people, banning weapons for people with mental illnesses and histories of violent crime. I'm not sure why this is such a problem for people. Why is it a horrible thing to say, no, you cannot buy 10000 rounds of ammunition in one day? We limit controlled substances both by prescription and then you can't fill your scrips early. Why is it OK to say you cannot get your 180mg Oxycontin refilled three days after you get the initial fill, but it's not OK to say you can't buy a thousand rounds of ammo in 24 hours? Do you see the inconsistency there?
And please, Z, tell me that you don't believe this crap that we can control where a storm lands. Weather patterns are global. You can't mess with one thing without messing with the rest of it. Cmon. I don't care who says what, you can't do it. And if they bring up that HAARP thing; that thing runs on less power than like a sixty watt bulb, and if you think you can manipulate a global weather system with that.... let me get you another roll of tinfoil.
Where'd you get the impression I believe in that stuff? In fact I recently deleted a post to that effect but others may believe in it. If you google "Hurricane Sandy/Alex Jones" and read some of the commments you'll come across one somewhere that says "the government has blood on its hands." Stuff like that could come in handy during an investigation but I don't know how you confused me talking about this conspiracy theory to me actually endorsing it???
ReplyDeleteGotta run but I'm formulating a theory here not on the conspiracy theory itself but if it relates to the subject of the blogpost. Soap's been absent from these discussions and his contributions would most definitely be interesting but I probably won't be back at the library until after Christmas at the earliest. Have a great holiday y'all!
ReplyDeleteJust wasn't sure. Thank you for restoring my faith in your essential sanity.
ReplyDeleteIt just struck me that the gerbils chanting that Columbine had an armed guard conveniently didn´t mention that the guard traded fire with the killers, driving them back into the library where they killed themselves, He likely save many lives and provided a defense until the rest of the police force could get there. I would take that over the slaughter of defenseless children.
ReplyDeleteAnd one other thing, earlier in the week Barbara Boxer proposed placing National Guard troops at schools. What´s the difference between that and what LaPierre proposes?
Schools are not prisons and you have yet to give me a straight answer on any of the questions I posed.
ReplyDeleteSo, while we taxpayers/business people are in a total quandary about tax planning, Obama and all the other idiots in Washington head home for the holidays. The market only dropped 121 points today, more sure to follow. It only costs a few million for Obama to jet off to Hawaii today, returning Wednesday, and Ím sure going back to Hawaii a few days later. Hey, it́s all free! It́s great to be King.
ReplyDeleteYou think you are getting screwed now? KEEP COUNT on vacations,and their the cost and the First Wookie's famous trips abound the World with her Holly-weird friends too. She has a nasty habit of demanding and GETTING her own airplane every time she wants it.. on our dime
This sorry excuse for a Man in the White Hut will get his comeuppance. Not sure exactly when, but it́s coming soon, you can bet on it.
So if your happy with political corruption, inflation, political corruption, worthless currency, sky high gas prices, political corruption, declining living standards, unemployment, massive political corruption, then you should be happy with Obama!
Note to ALL you brainless Libs who voted for this cretin..
And I'd like one of you Libs to tell me can you really be that blind and dumb? Are you still in a trance after Obama being elected the first time? Is this the Changed that you hoped for? I dońt think anyone can give an honest estimate of the damage the Clown from Kenyan has done to our great nation. It is immeasurable.
And for the first time in my life, I see little hope for the United States. I dońt know if the republicans can ever put together a message, plus find good candidates who know how to keep their mouths shut, to take back the congress and the presidency.
Obama and his team of Socialist's has been and will continue to be totally inept in handling any of this mess that we are in. His focus now is on destroying Republicans, but that fixation is going to be derailed when the world explodes. The Benghazi attack on Sept. 11th cover-up don’t work out too well and they know it.
Isn't it a bit confusing that all the details of the Bin Laden raid was in and broadcasted to the world in less than twenty four hours, even and including ALL the national security secrets surrounding it, and yet in this case, even thought they ALL watched it in real time the Benghazi raid is still a mystery to the administration. And yet YOU still defend these Creeps! And by Creeps I mean OBAMA, HILLARY and Susan Rice, and who knows who-else.
Where was our “Commander and Chief” when Americans were calling for help during a seven hour battle. Was he resting up for his next campaign trip when the “Red Phone” rang in the afternoon.
So what can we expect from a Lame Duck President? We can expect grid-lock that’s what!.. And that’s exactly what we are getting while The Lame Duck is basking in the sunshine of Hawaii. We can expect a president who will be exceptional angry at those who warned him about the consequences of ignoring the will of the American public. He can also expect that he himself is going to be a hard-assed president in his remaining 4 years. But I think you already know that. So much for the Constitution. Ah yes, but Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive.
I Hope you choke on some bad tofu!
Okeydokey...hyperbole, check. Name calling, check. Not answering the question, check. Distraction and fabrication, check. Lack of productive discussion, check. Wishing harm on me when all I have been to you is polite...check.
ReplyDeleteAnd Happy Holidays to you.
So you mean I can’t say what I want to say? I have to answer YOUR nonsensical irrelevant questions as if you are a prosecutor and I am on trial!! Naw, that's not going to happen. I'm going to say what I damn please. Period
ReplyDeleteWhat could be more close-minded than assuming that not only are you right, but that you don't even need to consider another viewpoint because anyone who disagrees must be evil?
Okeydokey?
The fifties are over, step into the new millennium please.
"What could be more close-minded than assuming that not only are you right, but that you don't even need to consider another viewpoint because anyone who disagrees must be evil?"
ReplyDelete...a Breitbart Wannabee?
Who asked You? Why are liberals such busy bodies in everyone's business?
ReplyDeleteLibs believe the World owes them something which they refuse to earn themselves... or to put it another way, they love something for nothing...They are not only Misguided, delusional but love to dictate, and butt into other 's conversations, as YOU are doing here. They suffer from the inability to use logic.
They are out of control and therefore try to control others. Sad.
Source(s):
Years of study, observance, research.
Actually I've been asking for your viewpoint; that's what my questions have been, trying to find out what things you're for or against, whether you feel high capacity magazines and so forth should be regulated or banned....
ReplyDelete...but you've refused so far to give me your viewpoint, so I haven't been able to consider it.
I haven't assumed I'm right. I've been trying to discover your viewpoint by asking you what your viewpoint is, but instead, you call me names, get all abusive and wish harm on me.
I'm not sure how we can proceed with a productive conversation if I'm the only one trying.
But I still wish you happy holidays.
"They are not only Misguided, delusional but love to dictate, and butt into other 's conversations, as YOU are doing here. They suffer from the inability to use logic."
ReplyDelete..ever wonder why 94% of we scientists vote Democrat?
LMAO
ReplyDeleteSatyavati devi dasi
ReplyDeleteI wish you NO harm..
I Hope you choke on some bad tofu!
ReplyDeleteThat certainly qualifies in my book.
Sounded like a general response out of frustration to me, not a personal attack as you seem to be making it out to be!
ReplyDeleteBut whatever moves your booty! If that's how you what to take it, go with it.
I've got more important fish to fry.
Merry Christmas, to the people who wish to be MERRY.
Obama and Faith? Oh please, can't you see right through this phoney? He is as full of crap as can be. It's all a show as just about every other thing he does.That is exactly what the Democrats do. They are a party of Snake Oil salesmen.
ReplyDeleteThe “Balls” on this president is unlike any we have seen before. He is one ruthless and determined socialist who is to hell bound change this country and, unfortunately he is succeeding. We are experiencing the perfect storm here. We have a president who is a rabid progressive ideologue, we have a media who not only agrees with his policies, but protects him, kisses up to him and will never be honest and or balanced enough to report both sides of a story. Not to take it a step further, they go out on a limb to cover-up his dirty work, never reporting anything said or proved by the opposition party. What we need is a party with core principles like Reagańs that can effectively articulate those policies, a party with a backbone of steel who will not back down and speak up with a strong voice. The power struggle within the Republican Party must stop. If we are to save this country, we must act like we want to. The Republicans must come back after the Christmas vacation united and go on the offense. We have nothing to lose and quite possibly everything to gain. As for Obama and the democracies humiliating the republicans, this was expected, this has been their way of doing business as long as I can remember.
President Obama used the six weeks after his election to remain in full campaign mode and attack the GOP relentlessly with the intent of marginalizing House Speaker John Boehner.
ReplyDeleteObama REFUSES to address "Operation Fast & Furious."and yet he is so out spoken when it comes to the NRA.
More than three hundred people are DEAD because of Obama and Holder, almost TWELVE TIMES the number of dead in Sandy Hook, Connecticut....
It's a well known fact that gun laws aren´t aimed at criminals but average law abiding citizens.The worst shooting areas in the country all probably have assault weapons bans
WHY was Obama FORCING GUNS into the hands of Mexican drug cartels?
WHY is he hiding behind executive privilege?
WHY are these networks refusing to seek the TRUTH in this matter?
If the NRA is going to be persecuted for standing up for Second Amendment rights, Barack Obama and his cronies should be persecuted with the FACTS!
The whole point of the liberal/progressive movement is to free the government from the constitution and thereby replace freedom with a socialist dictatorship. We have more than enough laws. These killers are crazy they don't obey the laws, so why punish the public with more laws that aren't going to mean anything to these crazy people.
I fail to see how limiting a right is the same as eliminating a right.
ReplyDeleteYou have a right to free speech but certain types of speech are illegal.
You have a right to free press but certain types of press are illegal.
You have a right to bear arms; but certain types of weapons should be illegal.
Merry Christmas everybody. Lets pray for a better year this time around, but unfortunately the moronic American people bought into Obama's lies for 4 more years and we're stuck with it.
ReplyDeleteYou can believe in Obama's faith, I can not. Lets face the facts, Obama has surrounded himself with lairs, dolts,commies, tax cheats and Clinton Administration retreads. Half the people he’s nominated to Cabinet positions including the biggest lair of them all, Hillary Clinton. Some others of them have had to back out due to failure to pay taxes, and others have survived their tax failures and settled into their seats of power, expecting you & me to play by the rules that they flaunt. Nancy Killefer was gonna be the new Chief Performance Officer (whatever the fuck THAT is) but she’s a tax cheat. Tom “Dash-hole” Daschle withdrew from consideration as Health & Human Services Secretary. New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson was on the short list to for both State and Commerce, and withdrew over a grand jury investigation into ethics and the awarding of contracts to his supporters.
ReplyDeleteAlleged financial wunderkind Tim Geithner is now the Sec. Treasury, but is such a financial imbecile that he “accidentally” cheated on his taxes due to an inability to operate TurboTax. Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius is the latest nominee to the poisoned post of HHS, and she has tax problems. And what in the HELL is Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano doing as Secretary of Homeland Security? Is this a joke?
She couldn’t keep illegals out of her own state so how in the hell can we expect her to secure the entire nation? Arizona’s biggest import is Mexicans, followed by dope. Arizona’s biggest export to other states is Mexicans, followed by dope. She has the fucking audacity to call the Global War on Terror a “contingency”, and terrorism is now simply a “man-caused disaster”. What kind of politically correct bullshit is that? Why not just call it an Oopsie, or a Mildly Unpleasant Misunderstanding? And Shrillary Hillay Clinton…her and Obama were at each other’s throats all through the elections, and now they play all nicey-nice as she kow-tows to various foreign hosts and places all the blame for Mexico’s drain-circling on our shoulders. Maybe she’s just purposely assing it up to make Obie look bad? And lest we forget Barney “Buddy Hackett” Frank and Nasty Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein and Dirty Harry Reid…and that embarrassment Joe Biden...gawd, it took 233 years to get us here as a nation, and less than 90 days to derail the American Dream. Hope and Change!!! Yes We Can!!
Z seriously, when shit gets all derailed and haywire and ridiculous around here, who is it (who is it ALWAYS) who's behind it?
ReplyDeleteThat being said I hope your holidays were nice. I worked 56 hours this week, 16 on Christmas, and while they were the best possible that someone could work who has to work that many, I ended up this morning with a temp of 101.5 and a killer cough. They were trying to send me home from work but wasn't anyone to come in. Anyway I was so sick when I rolled in here this morning that the Big Man said I wasn't permitted to go with him to VA to see his mom. I feel bad about it but I've basically been in the bed ever since. This is a tough bug... Nyquil isn't doing anything for it except breaking the fever.. the cough and everything else is untouched.
Hope you and the family had nice holidays and I really hope no one else gets this thing I got.
You too BB, hope your Christmas was nice and not excessively snowcovered.
I was talking with my brother yesterday and we agreed there's something weird going on with the media. LaPierre's view that there should be an armed police officer in every public school, that was the most sensible idea he presented. Some of his other suggestions were horrible to be quite frank, a nat'l registry of the mentally ill? but his position on the armed guards the media is treating as somehow loony, off the deep end, bizarre. It's as if the media has a collective bias against self-defense even the normally conservative NY Post. What happened at Sandy Hook I compare to 9/11 in that we were equally unprepared for 9/11. Who knew terrorists would fly planes into the Twin Towers? likewise who knew some guy would shoot up an elementary school? However now that we know these things why is LaPierre's POV dangerous? The media seriously needs to get back to just reporting the news. What happens when you don't just report the news? you get investigated like David Gregory.
ReplyDeleteSaty I was hoping we'd get back to the actual case here of Sandy Hook. In upstate NY an old guy out on parole for killing his grandma with a hammer torched his own house to lure firefighters there whom he then shot and he actually used the same weapon Lanza used. Now you would think that would be startling in and of itself but instead we get more on Obama. Is there something going on here? is something else weird gonna happen? look we got all year to rap about Obama but I'm concerned:)
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI'm literally getting sick and tired of these anti everything people - who instead of having anything constructive or even intelligent for that matter to add to any conversation they disagree with everything else who wants to protect the rights given to us Americans by our founding fathers. And I'm sick of Obama, Bloomberg and everyone else who wants to take it away.
If Thomas Jefferson could only see America now he'd think that he was in some Communist country.
Z... like Saty, I want to ask why gun control is seen as gun elimination.
ReplyDeleteNo one in a position to make or influence policy in Washington is advocating taking away the right to bear arms, or repeal the 2nd Amendment.
At most, some are arguing that perhaps it is time to put some common sense limits on that right.
Does anyone credible believe that the government and the courts do not have any right to put some limits on our rights?
IMO, the legitimate gunowner is right in that it is not his fault
ReplyDeletefolks get killed. It is also true
that anyone can pull a trigger: it
doesn't take much brainpower (a couple of two year olds out this way managed it accidently). So, when the NRA finds itself pushing so hard for rights that admit of
crazies armed to the teeth, it is only a matter of time before the
'collateral damage' will not sustain. Sure, you can arm old lady
schoolteachers, hell give 'em a cartridge belt and a ghillie suit;
..and you can arm kindergartners,
the alzheimer folks in the homes in their wheelchairs...but, it becomes irrational and stupid. Do
we need to do that just so lunatics
have the right to possess assault
weapon arsenals? I would think not. It is time for legitimate gun owners to face reality and fire the NRA.
And really, Z, you talk like this was the first time a school got shot up. I mean, where do you draw the line? Do we arm nurses because people get shot in hospitals? Oh yeah, I see that going over well, stray bullet slamming into some tank of compressed something or other. Right. And then some teacher who's been armed (or the 'armed volunteer' that has also been mentioned), what if they get all panicky and accidentally take out one of the kids themselves? Oh man, can you imagine being that person? Do you think they'll be absolved of responsibility for that? Do you honestly believe that anyone who wants to dedicate their lives to teaching little kids wants to impart that kind of mentality, that we have to live in a prison, that the first response is an armed response? I would rather take a bullet for a patient than run the risk of accidentally shooting one in defense. I think LaPierre is delusional, and I don't know what majority it is he thinks agrees with him, because certainly even the majority of NRA members think he's a maniac.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that people think that having a 'right' means that it has to be an 'absolute' right that is 'absolutely unabridged', that it may not have limitations or regulations or hell, even structure. Not one person has brought up banning guns. Most people are concerned about one particular type of firearm, and about high capacity magazines and accessories that are purely designed to stalk, hunt, and kill human beings. But even these few limitations are viewed as some kind of Communist plot. People are unreasonable about it, they refuse to even discuss anything.
Great job on this post Sir.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask your Liberal readers a question.It always comes back to "it´s the fault of the Republicans in the House," doesn´t it? No one expects anything good out of Democrats so the fact that they are backing Obama in every unconstitutional act goes without comment or complaint. Don´t any of you have Democrat representatives or senators you can complain about? And, if you do, why do you constantly complain about Bush and other Republicans?
It’s like a phobia, where someone reacts to anything that Obama does or says, they are automatically labeled as a "Racist"! I Are these people really Americans? Sometimes I have to think twice about it. It makes me sick when I see these Racist remarks.
When I hear your liberal posters say things like "He was a warmonger who let 9/11 happen while he went on constant vacation" It blows my mind. To me it sounds more lime Obama than Bush!
. Gun control doesn't mean that guns won't get into the hands of criminals. You think they buy them off the street, or out of the trunk of some guys car, with a legal permit?
ReplyDeleteGun control laws don't affect criminals IN ANY WAY. All it does is leave tax paying, law abiding citizens defenseless. You're afraid of guns, because you don't understand them in anyway. Sorry Colorado has shitty concealed weapon laws, but guess what
the crazed Killers like the one in Connecticut last week are Crazy, they have nothing to do with LEGAL gun owners. They DON’T obey the Laws! They don’t obey any laws. Some of the worst mass shootings in history have taken place in countries with extreme "restrictive" gun laws. The bad guy still got the guns. Look at New York for example, they have just about the toughest gun laws in the country, and still they have people killing each other almost every day in Harlem.
Guns are the reason you can walk around free every single day. They are the reason we won two World Wars. They the reason your Grand Father lived to see another day, after being thrown in the middle of bullets hurdling across beaches while innocent people around him died. They're the reason he made it home to his wife, after years of pain and loneliness, just so he could conceive you—an ungrateful victim of the media hype machine. Guns DON'T kill people; in fact, they just sit there and DO NOTHING, until an unstable moron like John Holmes decides he wants to shoot up a movie theater.
If we are to follow the lame-brain ideas of you Libs, why don't we get rid of everything, and anything relating to weapons, or anything else that could kill people or that could be used to hurt people if put in the hands of someone that had intent to do so, and start with, hunting knives, steak knives, butter knives, baseball bats, the Major League Baseball since they promotes baseball bats, video games, cars, boxing gloves and box cutters. And why not put all Rappers, Football and Basketball players in jail while we are at it, after all they are mostly all sociopaths as well. Look at the crime statistics among professional football and basketball players. A bit of research on this topis resulted in this statistic:
“In 2010, the NFL experienced 507 arrests of its players”
And by the way, to you Liberals, I have read the posts here before and let me say that you are extremely ignorant... Just like most of the other PROGRESSIVE’S that post here.. Lastly, just as you don't like the "crazy right-winger" talking about guns I don't like your bat-crap left wing ideas either.
Saty what I really meant was that nobody expected someone to shoot up a bunch of first-graders. Most of these school shootings take place in high school settings and that's bad enough but a bunch of first-graders and so security-wise we were unprepared. Dave I don't buy it when gun controllers say they don't want to take away all guns, it's just a hunch and that's why I said it's time for the NRA and the right wing to cave on assault weapons and high capacity magazines. After you do this that's the time we'll see if the gun control lobby is happy with the laws we have or if they continue to fight to just ban guns in general. It's just my opinion Dave and I could be wrong but I think folks like Carolyn McCarthy in their heart of hearts would like no Americans to have guns. It's like the anti-tobacco lobby, I think they'd like to ban cigarettes ultimately and that's why they keep fighting even after we have some good laws already on the books. Name any social movement, anti-pornsters, they'd like to ban porn. I'd happily be proven wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe media act like after a tragedy like Sandy Hook it all has to do with gun control. Lost in the shuffle is why Adam Lanza did what he did, weren't the authorities on the verge of telling us something? Now it's mum's the word like the story is slowly fading away as they all do except for the gun control angle. I mentioned not that long ago alleged weather manipulation by the gov't and Alex Jones and fringe movements and various conspiracy theories which can set off the mentally unstable, that all got lost in the avalanche of comments which can kinda be subgrouped under Obama Sucks. Law enforcement needs to keep apprised of any and all conspiracy theories and the extreme fringes of both the left and the right and to keep tabs on things the rational mind doesn't even accept as being real like the satanic movement. All these things I mentioned may have nothing to do with Adam Lanza or maybe one or two elements do but we may be losing real sight of the most dangerous threats to American society and culture if we only focus on gun control. Was Lanza a domestic terrorist? Within just a short time frame you had the brazen hitman in Manhattan, then Sandy Hook and now Webster NY. Bizarre and shocking shootings out of the ordinary that make the headlines like something out of Son of Sam II. Maybe we're missing something while only focusing on guns.
ReplyDeleteI just got back from CT as it's my day off. Went to the Marian Shrine in Brookfield on Rte. 25 and Newtown is only about 7 or so miles away. Weather crappy and drizzly and nobody there so I said a few prayers and then went to Stew's on Federal Road for some tunafish and a bag of pistachio nuts. The media is the same all over and some CT paper, the News-Times was touting that states with the strictest gun restrictions have the lowest murder rates or something. The Journal News here in Westchester got into some hot water by publishing the names and addresses of local gun owners here. This is wrong and dumb and just plain bad on so many levels, multilayered stupidity for the Journal News to do this I could devote a whole blog to just this alone. Legally they did nothing wrong, they're not convicted child molesters and you'd think a struggling newsdaily wouldn't want to piss off a large segment of potential readers. Never liked the Journal News, too self-righteous for my tastes.
ReplyDeleteThe states with the strictest gun restrictions DO have the lowest murder rates. Bloomberg is hot on gun restriction and rates in NY have plummeted.
ReplyDeleteGun regulations do not completely stop people who are totally dedicated from getting guns. They do make it more difficult and it does give cops something to nail them on hopefully before things get out of control (like arresting drug dealers in the park after dark for 'tresspassing').
You aren't going to hear anything else about Adam Lanza because there isn't anything else to tell. There are no magic answers forthcoming on that. You're not ever going to know why he did what he did, no one is ever going to know that. As difficult as it is to deal with, some things have no 'why' and we are just left with hands in the air wishing there were answers and there aren't any.
The vast majority of gun violence in this country takes place with guns that are legally in the hands of their legal owners. Adam Lanza wasn't a criminal. Those were his mother's guns, legally registered. You can stretch it if you like and say he 'stole' them but that's a stretch; if it was his mother's car he used to be in a fatal collision the word 'stolen' wouldn't come up.
The endpoint here is that people are being reasonable; I have not yet heard one person say they want to ban all guns; but the gun folk (I will not say 'the Right' because these people come from both sides the fence) can't make any concession whatsoever, they just cannot accept any restriction whatsoever.
And now I have to go back to bed.
We should be hearing more about Mr. Lanza, I beg to differ. Toxicology results??? We may never know the why but we need to know the why, is there some kind of common thread here? I believe the authorities always know more than they're letting on. Weren't they in the midst of putting his computers or hard drives back together or something? how's it coming along? If you can't know the why so be it but if you can know the why if you pursue it by all means do so and you owe it to society. They say his mother was some type of doomsday prepper, was that an element here? The authorities should be having a followup news conference and not one to the tune of we can't say anything further because we're still in the middle of an active investigation. Give us what you got, there has to be at least a little bit more and then we'll move on. I totally beg to differ with you Saty, it can't be all about the gun control.
ReplyDeleteNo, it can't be all about the gun control, but I don't think it's ever going to be about the specifics of Adam Lanza's mind. It can be about the bigger issues of mental health and the lack of decent social services for mental health, but I don't think you're ever going to get any closer to the exact processes of Adam Lanza's mind than you are right now. I've done too many crazy things myself that have had no 'why' to expect that there should be a 'why'. I know that is a very, very difficult thing to accept; it even is for me sometimes about things I've done myself. But honestly I don't think you're going to get anything...and anything you do get, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just something someone made up in a back room to satisfy people's 'why' craving.
ReplyDeleteBecause that's the thing... if, and I am using that term guardedly, if Adam Lanza had a mental illness... there's not always a why, and even if there is some kind of a why it's not necessarily be a why that would make sense to anyone else in the world except Adam Lanza at the exact moment.
ReplyDeleteBecause when people are actively mentally ill, their brains are in an onslaught of chemistry that would boggle the most advanced chemist, physicist, even BB. There's no way to understand how they perceive the world around them, no analogy or comparison that can be made, no way to communicate to other people what it is or feels like. I know that because I have tried and I can't, and I have some damn good expressive skills but I always fall short.
There's no way to explain it. How do you explain the color red to a blind person, or Beethoven to someone who's deaf? Maybe you can put their hands on the piano as you play, like he did, but the best you're going to get is a poor simulacrum.
I firmly believe that anything you hear coming out about Adam Lanza's motives is something that someone made up so people will stop being aggressive about wondering why. It isn't about Adam Lanza anymore, it's about the people who feel they can't get closure unless they have a reason-any reason. It doesn't even have to be (and won't be) a real reason-just something they can cling to.
When people cry at funerals, they cry for themselves, not for the dead.
Think about that hard before you reply. It's truer than it sounds at first listen.
Apparently part of the Lanza post-
ReplyDeletemortem will involve a DNA study:
Nascent ongoing research focuses the genetic/brain physiology; not to identify individuals, but to search for
pharmaceuticals that may positively interdict brain chemistries. One problem in these
cases involves anger and the relation of the individual to society: we sometimes see perpetrators of domestic violence
involved in stalking and murder-
kind of predictable in some cases.
..several around here where the woman had a no contact warrent, but they seem impossible to prevent. ..and thanks to the NRA,
these characters are always well
armed. In such cases, IMO, it is not brain chemistry, but goes back to childhood, upbringing and how they cannot deal with anger. We may further ponder the gender issue: very few females are goony
combat-loving, firepower crazy
mass murderers. dunno, just pondering.
Taking that and wandering with it, BB, I'm still heading over to the chemical side, focusing more on anger; the uncontrollable rages of people who have abused steroids comes to mind. Testosterone has also been linked to excessively aggressive behavior.... I think that maybe it's something that's multifactorial, can't be pigeonholed neatly, and perhaps there's an element of upbringing etc in how one copes with whatever anger it is, I do think that in some cases (especially the mental illness related cases) that the incipient rage can be caused by a chemical barrage.
ReplyDeleteMulifactorial indeed: in brain function alone, the science is
ReplyDeletecomplex and they have just begun to understand it. IMO, the combination of violent 'thinking' and the ready access and simplicity of using a firearm is
a core problem either overlooked or ignored.
The why is never irrelevant in these tragedies even if cannot be immediately ascertained. WHY the Holocaust happened is not irrelevant, WHY that mentally ill woman in NYC pushed a Muslim man to his death in front of the 7 train is not irrelevant. There really is no public pressure, even reportorial pressure on the authorities in CT and the FBI to report on what they've come up with so far so the Story slowly dies, fades away and next Dec. 14 becomes merely some kind of macabre milestone, some historical footnote in the annals of crime. These are highly trained investigators and it's not too much to ask for a general picture even if Lanza's exact thought processes are obscure at this point.
ReplyDeleteMy gut feeling is for him to have done this he had to be on some kind of drug legal or illegal. What is noticeable by its absence is that the media to my knowledge has not even brought up drugs in this case and neither have the authorities. It's kind of an interesting position that people can do the most horrendous things and we don't have to know why. It'd be like after 9/11 we came up with well maybe they were just a group of almost 20 men who were bored with their lives and wanted some adventure, you know just to move on ourselves.
ReplyDeleteThe WHY will NEVER be ascertained because in the event that the person is actually mentally ill the WHY (if they are even capable of verbalizing something) is not the product of any kind of normal thought process.
ReplyDeleteI keep trying to explain this to you from a first hand perspective and for some reason you just can't process it.
THERE IS NOT ALWAYS A WHY. And it IS irrelevant. Why is irrelevant; Adam Lanza is dead, 26 people are dead. All the whys in the world will neither bring them back nor will they have any impact on the thought process of any other mentally ill person. The why is merely something that survivors want to use to rationalize things for their own continued emotional stability. It has no meaning or use beyond that.
I realize that it's very difficult to understand but just like a diabetic pancreas doesn't function like a normal one, a brain with an illness doesn't function like a normal one either, and cannot be expected to nor to conform to some kind of ordinary standards.
There is no why that you or anyone else will ever know or be able to understand. Anything that the authorities put out will be manufactured in order to get people to stop asking why he did it.
There is no answer. And I highly doubt any sort of drug, legal or illegal, was involved. In fact, my gut feeling was that he probably NEEDED medication.
I don't know what else I can tell you, Z, except that I know that when someone is actively mentally ill, they do things that have no rational motivation and cannot tell you why they do them.
ReplyDeleteYou don't understand this; I can tell because you say 'we don't have to know why', like someone's denying you the right to know.
There is nothing TO know.
That's the difference. It's not that people wouldn't LIKE to tell you why, or that someone is hiding something from you (as much as your inner conspiracy freak wants to believe that)... it is that there IS NO WHY.
If I had to make an attempt to give you the why behind what Adam Lanza did I would say to you that my belief is that his thought process ran something along the lines of 'it seemed like a good idea at the time'.
I don't know how else to make this clear to you. I think you're trying to apply some standard of normal behavior, of normal cognition, of rationality, into a situation with a person that didn't have those things. You will never get an answer, because the normal rules cannot be applied.
There's just no answer. I'm sorry.
Then, there is anosognosia .
ReplyDeleteOMG, I can so get into that discussion. Not right now because I am heading back to work to do 16, but I totally understand that lack of insight. Especially in terms of a cyclic disease it's a very real thing and a huge precipitant of medication noncompliance. It's hard to take medication when you feel so well that it's difficult to believe you have an illness.
ReplyDeleteAlright, I'm gonna go precipitate my illness by staying awake for a ridiculous amount of hours.
If there was just some way to keep me HYPOMANIC without actually falling over the MANIC cliff... I could rule the world. Benevolently of course. And socialistically, naturally.
Well we do know he had this strange medical affliction where he couldn't feel or experience physical pain and that's why he was burning himself with a lighter, phencyclidine or something else?
ReplyDeleteSounds like you're denying Free Will:)
ReplyDeleteAnosognosia, free will..whatever, it must be common. Whenever I feel
ReplyDeletegreat, I cut back on my GI meds, then get sick and have to work back to feeling great..start over..do the same dumb thing.
(of course it could be just plain
old age ignorance...)
There are plenty of people who one, have a pathological pain tolerance (I am one of them) and two, inflict harm on themselves.
ReplyDeleteTwo, where does this free will thing enter the discussion? If you have lung cancer and you can't breathe, is that because of free will? How about your pancreas, can your free will make it create insulin? When are you going to accept that the brain is another body part and when it's ill it does not function correctly?
Hey BB, I was quick going through the headlines today and I got this idea to ask you, since you always talk about the gender statistics, like in terms of who's the mass murderers they appear to be overwhelmingly male and in their 20's... have you noticed the overwhelming trend of female teachers in their 30's having sex with their students?
ReplyDeleteI dunno, it just occurred to me that it seems like it's always these female teachers going after students half their age.
Weird.
Yep, those female teacher hotties seem to make the news a lot these days. Motive seems to be the power of being attractive to the younger male-or revenge on a husband, from what I've read. Around here, it is
ReplyDeletemostly male teachers, but not by much. Then there is the workplace:
one place I worked the CEO managed to impregnate two secretaries in one year (of course they and their offspring retired to Hawaii, sort of a golden parachute for performance? Another instance, a
big supervisor was so impressed by
a bar pickup, he hired her as an
assistant supervisor the next day.
Hearsay, though..I stayed in the lab getting high on looking at crystals under the microscope, mixing up weird chemicals and writing reports in Runic to confuse the brass...we all have our
pecadellos, huh?
Dissociative anaesthetics...I had this idea about WHY? Let's say I banished you from my forum tomorrow and decided to delete all your comments going forward...no reason, in fact I may not even have one or be aware of it, just the brain misfiring and it's irrelevant anyway...I know you wouldn't want to know why, in fact you wouldn't even be demanding a why and anyway it's really quite irrelevant in the long run and you would just move on.
ReplyDeleteThe intersection of drugs and guns, that's what's missing from the media narrative who seem to want to make it into just guns and mental illness. Couple years back some young guy in one of the boroughs, Queens or somewhere went to different locations and shot at motorists and killed a few. Was under the influence of phencyclidine and told cops afterwards he thought he was shooting at beams of light coming at him which were in reality car headlights at night. Libertarians, I really think they should pick up the tabs for funeral expenses in such cases. Wikipedia at one point had horror stories in their article about phencyclidine but that was later deleted for some reason, whither Big Lurch? In fact there is a very strong pro-drug bias on the Net when you research the various psychedelics and dissociatives and universities have been using them legally in psychiatric research. The 60's never really died. Yes Saty you are denying Free Will and I've a big problem with that, I mean why have prisons? Anyway I've worked with a couple of people who fit BB's description of anosognosia and if you'll excuse me let me bone up on my House:)
ReplyDeleteConceal carry guy out this way put his gun in his belt so as not to scare customers at Bed, Bath & Beyond. He bend over to look at something, the gun fell out and
ReplyDeleteseverely wounded a stack of towels.
Staff cleared the store until police arrived. He had a legitimate
CC permit, but the police charged him with reckless endangerment.
He wasn't on drugs, didn't have
anosognosia and was otherwise normal (if ya gotta be armed to
go to Bed, Bath & Beyond) I definitely think the guy should be
up for a Lapierre Award....
Which part of free will am I denying?
ReplyDeleteI mean, cmon, explain this to me. As someone with a mental illness, I want this explained, this free will thing, are you trying to say that I can somehow 'will' myself healthy? Can I will away hallucinations? I'm incredibly lucky that I have more insight than most people and that's probably because I'm a nurse. But I'm not getting you... are you trying to deny the reality of the illness and turn it into some conservative lack of personal responsibility thing? Because if that's the case, then we DO have big issues.
Listen to me, all the free will in the world is not going to make a person with a severed spinal cord walk.
ReplyDeleteFree will is not going to make a diabetic pancreas secrete insulin nor will it cause failed kidneys to work again.
I would like for you to explain to me why you cannot understand that a diseased body part does not and can not function in the same capacity as a normal one, and what makes you think that 'free will' has something to do with it.
I assure you that people who have cancer will explain to you that their free will hasn't entered into it.
"Can I will away hallucinations?"
ReplyDeleteNo you can't, I never said that but you can will not to go into your local shopping mall and rack up the body count. I'm talking about free will to engage in certain actions or not to engage in them so no you cannot control your hallucinations or will your pancreas to get better but you can choose to cheat or not to cheat on your husband let's say. Re hallucinations there are drugs out there that are fat-soluble so let's say this mass shooter or that mass shooter was on PCP about six months ago but the fat-soluble chemicals kicked in again and let's also say said shooter also has some history of mental illness how do we know with certainty where his hallucinations are coming from if he suffers from them? Gets complicated from a clinical standpoint.
Our legal system, our entire criminal justice system accepts, is based on the doctrine of free will otherwise why have prisons? & no I'm not denying the reality of legal insanity and those issues but generally speaking you shoot up a mall or a cinema and don't take your own life chances are very good you'll be spending your entire life behind bars. I believe Son of Sam had free will and that's why he's where he is today. Hey BB don't misunderstand, I'm way more on your and Dave's side re gun control than not. Ultimately I hate guns and would never have them.
ReplyDeleteWhat does it matter where the hallucinations come from? If you believe they are real and you react to them.. it doesn't matter what caused them.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't think you understand mental illness.
And I can also see that you don't (or don't want to) understand delusional thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhen you believe something one hundred percent with everything in you then obviously you are going to act upon it. If that thing you believe is not real, your actions can be catastrophic.
And the more I think about this, I think it's that you don't want to understand.
You just like to argue. Where am I denying the importance of the mental health subject in any of my posts? I'm simply saying that our entire legal, criminal justice system is based for the most part on free will and if I understand you correctly maybe we should revamp that. Here's what you do, you accuse somebody who doesn't agree with you of not being able to process your idea or opinion, it's never possible they have processed your idea or opinion but simply disagree with you. You act like if I disagree with you it's some type of intellectual deficit on my part:)
ReplyDeleteWhat does it matter where the hallucinations come from? BTW no sinister oblique insinuations here just talking in general. I'm not saying it always matters but let's say Joe Shmoe goes to therapy and talks about his hallucinations but never mentions he used acid or angel dust in the past well maybe he shouldn't have done the drugs. It might be relevant information for the therapist or medical professional to consider and if it deals with health it's probably better to put everything on the table. Kind of like the guy who goes to therapy for anger issues but never mentions he hits the bottle. I've always said you and I could argue endlessly over a tube of toothpaste. Hey how 'bout a Crest thread?
ReplyDeleteFree will/determinism is a philsophical labyrinth , the concepts varying from the philosophical,
ReplyDeletereligious or scientific POV. If we are burdened with original sin, is that not deterministic? If we can
train mice by punishment and reward
..flatworms even, are they exhibiting free will? Pragmatically, the arguments generate more questions than answers. Z-Man..toothpaste? You
would expect, and be correct...
BB-Idaho did professional research
in that area as well. *damn*
All I'm saying is that it's impossible to apply the standards of objective reality against someone whose condition prevents them from perceiving it.
ReplyDeleteWhere the hallucinations come from.. if the person believes they are real and acts accordingly I don't think it matters. If 26 people are dead does it matter whether the hallucination came from the water cooler at work or because the person is schizophrenic? What's the difference? 26 people dead either way, can't go back on that. The only difference would be that the water cooler person, should they have survived, would have much more difficulty proving that they had been hallucinating, as opposed to someone like me who has a list of ICD9 codes all over her chart telling you, God, and BCBS all about it.