Wednesday, August 14, 2013

Stop 'n' Frisk put on hold in NYC

My liberal gut instinct tells me Stop 'n' Frisk is wrong but my practical side sees it's also a highly effective police tool for reducing crime rates and getting guns off the streets. As you know Manhattan federal judge Shira Sheindlin has basically invalidated the NYPD's well-known and highly practiced stop and frisk program which has led to at least twenty years of markedly lower crime rates than under the David Dinkins administration. Judge Sheindlin also ordered a court-appointed monitor or overseer of the NYPD program and there's also to be a pilot program involving copcams worn on cops in one precinct in areas in every borough with the highest stop rates is my understanding although the PBA is gonna fight this rightfully saying imo that cops already have alot of gear on like mace and flashlights and this is only an extra and unnecessary encumbrance. Here's a complaint I hear alot about gangbangers in general, what's the deal with them and why do they have such notoriously bad aim? it'd be like the Mob going after Castellano outside the steakhouse but instead shooting an innocent grandmother in her rocking chair across the street. Anyway here's my overall view of these matters, when liberalism holds sway the crime rate goes up, way up. In short PC kills, think ChicagoLand.

106 comments:

  1. I have no problem with stop and frisk. Sure, it is an inconvenience, but it seems to work. Dunno about judges these days-see some judge wouldn't let the parents name their baby 'Messiah'. It should be legal to name a child whatever, even if he is going to get harassed to heck in 4th grade.

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    Replies
    1. I wish more liberals were practical like you.

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  2. Death penalty, stop and frisk, NSA, drones -- you sir are a pragmatic liberal.

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  3. Shira Sheindlin is a PIMP for the liberal agenda. It's people like her, and Barack Obama, and these Ding-bats who are running for office in NY, as well as Hillary Clinton and Cory Booker who is being groomed as the next Barack Obama who will bring this one time Great Nation down.

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    Replies
    1. Make no mistake, the criminals are rejoicing over her decision.

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  4. BB's pragmatic liberalism could really take off, people could have their liberal social programs AND low crime rates.

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  5. You know what always kills me? People who insist that people whose philosophies they don't agree with "hate America".

    That has got to be one of the most ridiculous, hyperbolic, flat out bullshit statements ever.

    As if people sit around at night plotting the destruction of the country they themselves were born in and live in and in which their kids go to school and so forth.

    It's a very easy way to dehumanize and demonize people. That's why people use it; if I don't agree with your particular brand, then by necessity YOU must HATE America, because if you didn't, you'd agree with me.

    I'm having a bit of a difficult med adjustment (yes, again) today.

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  6. "I have no problem with stop and frisk."

    And therein lies the problem.

    The evils of the world are all made possible by the sanction we give it.

    There is an assumption of guilt in the practice rather than an assumption of innocence. It is wrong. It is unjust. There is no moral basis for it.

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    Replies
    1. Live in a high-crime urban area soapie and see your doctrinal purity fly out the window.

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    2. You're wrong.

      I live in North Minneapolis. You can pull my house up on Google maps (4151 Girard Ave N, Minneapolis, MN 55412) and even see a picture of me pulling weeds in the front yard.

      In a city just under 400,000 there were about 41 murders last year.

      Google "Crime/North Minneapolis" and have a look. I'll be waiting for your apology.

      Delete
    3. Since living here in my house since 2005 I've had a stray bullet hit a window on my front porch, one guy was shot and killed a few blocks up, and I've had the pleasure of hearing gun shots within a 4 block radius on too many occasions to count.

      I don't live in fear.

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    4. OK my bad for assuming. BTW what kind of weeds were you pulling up in your front yard?

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    5. Apology accepted.

      I was pulling dandelions and some crabgrass. The summer was brutal that year. My lawn was completely fried and brown.

      The shitty of Minneapolis has laid a heavy hand on the black community here. There have been many suits settled with respect to their actions against the citizenry.

      Corruption and all that jazz.

      Delete
    6. You could have made some dandelion tea. When I was big on detox teas I noticed organic dandelion was a common key ingredient.

      Delete
    7. Yes. If picked at their peak they are great in a salad.

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  7. I have wild allergies right now. Oh yeah I found something interesting for you and BB. You know sometimes you have to adjust your thinking just a tad when new evidence rolls in.

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  8. Big difference between 'correction' and repeal.

    Nobody ever said the plan was perfect. It isn't, never was and won't be until we can cover every single American.

    Correction is a necessary part of progress. Trying to dismantle the entire thing is bullshit.

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    Replies
    1. This is the first time I've heard you say we have to correct ObamaCare. With more decisions like Scheindlin's coming down and more crime and dead bodies and injured people going up we're gonna need all the health care there is.

      Delete
  9. I have said time and again that the plan is not perfect and never was.

    It will not be perfect until we have single payer, universal coverage in the US.

    Until then, we have a start, and we keep working to make that start better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Harry Reid let the cat out of the bag when he said ObamaCare is merely on the road to single-payer aka socialized medicine.

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  10. RE: 'I have wild allergies right now'
    ..today's allergy report for your area; grass pollen -0-
    ragweed pollen -5-, tree pollen -0-, mold very low. Your immune response must be other than organic mediated. Is there a lot of diesel smoke around Yonkers today?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Usually I get the allergies in spring and fall not midsummer. Dust mites?

      Delete
  11. The 4th Amendment protects citizens from unreasonable search and seizure, but permits a 'reasonable cause' clause. So, the stop and frisk policy hinges on how lawyers define reasonable cause:
    ("Probable cause" means that the officer must possess sufficiently trustworthy facts to believe that a crime has been committed. In some cases, an officer may need only a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity to conduct a limited search. Reasonable suspicion means that the officer has sufficient knowledge to believe that criminal activity is at hand. This level of knowledge is less than that of probable cause, so reasonable suspicion is usually used to justify a brief frisk in a public area or a traffic stop at roadside. To possess either probable cause or reasonable suspicion, an officer must be able to cite specific articulable facts to warrant the intrusion. Items related to suspected criminal activity found in a search may be taken, or seized, by the officer.)

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    Replies
    1. Gang members loitering on a street corner in Brownsville Brklyn, a bulge in a pocket...what sayeth the soapster?

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    2. They can be asked to leave the premises if there be an ordinance for loitering which presumably there would be.

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    3. & take their guns elsewhere.

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    4. There isn't a crime in owning a gun. I'm not certain of the specific laws in NY regarding gun possession.

      In Minnesota, if a cop notices that you are carrying they can ask for your permit and under the statute you have to comply.

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    5. Gangbangers in Brooklyn soapie. Stop being so theoretical.

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    6. We have perported gangbangers in Minneapolis as well. There isn't any crime in being a member of a gang per se. Individuals should be encouraged to freely associate as they wish.

      The criminal element, that is force, fraud, coercion, etc. is a separate issue.

      If there is a crime committed then there is a basis. Simply being a perported "gangbanger" isn't enough in my opinion to warrant the practice being debated herein.

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    7. The NYPD has a gang squad and superior detectives, when I say gangbangers I mean noted gangbangers known to the police for an assortment of crimes. They go by different names here, Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings and many other lesser known groups. They're not gangs of cardplayers or golfers or mallwalkers but gangs who deal in drugs and weapons and commit robberies, thefts, assaults and in some cases murder. Soap they don't have permits and all the other proper paperwork for their pieces. NYPD has gotten numerous guns off the streets through the practice being discussed here.

      Delete
  12. BB's long scholarly responses, I challenge you to do that on a smartphone and if you do on occasion it doesn't go through and you have to do it all over again. W/O a stylus and with your fat cattle fingers.

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  13. Dust mite allergy?
    Could be, but usually the occurrence is an indoor one. Perhaps at
    work? On the other hand, if your reaction continues out of doors, there may be some transient atmospheric condition (inversion, high humidity, etc). Since the microscopic dust mite is related to the tick, we silly folk might be worried about itty-bitty Lymes. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's when I sneeze the most when I'm at home. At work it's the least severe to hardly anything. Rented an old book once many years ago at a local library and itched and sneezed and wheezed like crazy, mold spores.

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  14. I've been trying to keep up on allergy science in terms of immune response biochemistry. One of the more odd research studies was on baby
    bottles: sterilized, none sterilized and those that were licked
    by the dog. Wouldn't you know, the babies with the dog spit bottles had far fewer allergies? A high percentage of those with
    sterilized bottles developed allergies. There is considerable consensus that early childhood exposure to all sorts of antigens
    develops a lifelong resistance (to put it simply)

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  15. Obamacare is the brainchild of the insurance and pharmacuetical companies. If their the ones you've a problem with I don't know how in theeeee hell you'll resolve them now.

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  16. Indeed; those businesses would never give up their lucrative trade in favor of a simple singlepayer system. Nor, at the present time
    do voters and politicians dare do anything practical.

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  17. There was also a new mammal discovered in the mountain forests of Ecuador and a WWE gay wrestler has just come out.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Seems everyone wants a government contract. Of course they all come with strings; enough of them to make a solid noose.

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  19. Lot of odd news. Some guy in a public park in the next state was stopped by police for wearing a pistol (self-defense from the kindergartners?) He was upset, sued and got $15,000 in damages.
    Think about it, Z-Man...it pays to pack!

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  20. US pharmaceutical companies consistently fight US citizens buying
    prescription drugs much cheaper from Canada (or any other foreign
    country), ostensibly because there may be a purity problem. I checked my expensive US meds a few weeks back: one made in India,
    One in Ireland and in Israel and the aspirin was made in China.
    Us pharmaceuticals import almost all THEIR stuff from overseas,
    raise the price and try to prevent the average Joe from buying overseas. IMO, hypocritical at best, lying bastards at worst.

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  21. Speaking of NYC News apparently alot of folks aren't happy with the new free NYC condoms, seems they break alot and only come in one standard size. Now I ask you BB and Saty too if the government screws up free rubbers, NYC gov't, State gov't, federal, whatever it's all gov't, if the gov't screws up free rubbers WHY in hell would you want them anywhere near health-care?

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  22. Wasn't aware those things are custom-fitted. BTW, folks in rainy areas, people that work at swimming pools (and even some chefs) wrap their smartphones in a condom to waterproof it.

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  23. When fishing in the Hudson River if a used condom washed up on shore we'd refer to them as Coney Island Whites.

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  24. 'WHY in hell would you want them anywhere near health-care?' Because in our town we have a Social Security office with 5 people
    working across the street from a health insurance office with 300
    people. Because I was in the Army and it was more honest and straightforward than any business I know of. Because government
    provides needed services without a profit. Because in Iraq, Blackwater private 'soldiers' made $120,000 a year while the combat enlisted folk did the work for $20,000 a year. Because I'm very tired of taking people to the hospital and having them wait
    half an hour for the finance people to see if they can pay. Because of a number of homes for the aged that went from excellent
    to criminally negligent when the local government sold them to private companies. Regarding the free condoms, perhaps private enterprise would offer a greater selection, but free? ha

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My dear overtruster in government. DMV, PO, IRS....

      Delete
  25. Government is us. In a society of 314 million, we need some sort of structure. A lot of folk are swallowing the 'big bad gov't' these days without even pondering the consequences of Pleistocene
    tribal warfare (with drones, yet). If ya like the hermit life, I
    know a few places where you can hide out, disappear, avoid taxes,
    and be happy talking to only yourself. :)

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  26. The Gov't providing free rubbers...isn't that kinda like gov't stepping into your bedroom? Would you like free lube with that?

    ReplyDelete
  27. If I were a polysci prof, I would require a paper on "Compare and
    contrast NSA data collection to 'Stop and Search'".

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  28. You get all concerned about government rubbers but you're okay with mandated ultrasounds?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pat's Principle pay for your own shit serves well. Please be accurate, I'm all for ultrasounds just not mandated ones. How we love to tread over old ground here.

      Delete
  29. We could always talk about the new and exciting ways that Pat McCrory is destroying North Carolina;

    http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2013/08/15/mccrory-office-on-22000-dhhs-raises-no-comment/

    The rest of us at DHHS aren't getting any raises this year. The raise (1.2%) that we all got last year worked out for me to be $660 annually. When you figure that the average employee makes roughly half of what I make, that's just a whole new definition of pitiful.

    The $22K raise is actually more than some DHHS employees' annual salary. We're on a hiring and wage freeze, closing buildings, and he's passing out 35% raises to cronies.

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  30. McCrory HAS to be Scott Walker's brotha by another mutha....

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  31. Isn't that the way politics works Saty? geez and there's gambling in Vegas! I see Obama has given Congresspeople a waiver on ObamaCare.

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  32. The relevant text is found on page 81 of the law, and it says:



    (D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.—
    (i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this sub-title, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are—

    (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or

    (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).


    The question for members of congress and their staffs then became “will my employer’s contribution towards my health insurance continue even though I have to buy insurance from an exchange?” The federal Office Of Personnel Management (OPM) ruled in answer to that question that yes, the federal government may continue to make a contribution to the cost of congressional employees’ health insurance coverage. This was the basis of the “Obama exempts congress from Obamacare” lie.


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    Replies
    1. You're really down with this stuff. Do you have that on Kindle?

      Delete
  33. We have to combat the lies and ignorance wherever they're found. It's the repeated dissemination of these lies that cause the problem. Meanwhile the truth is something entirely different.

    You see?

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  34. I figured I was tired last night so I just read it again and maybe it's me. The problem? ObamaCare is written in legalese.

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  35. All health insurance policies are.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah but ObamaCare is roughly the same length as "Atlas Shrugged."

      Delete
  36. The problem is that people find the lies more in line with their personal prejudices than the truth, and so they choose to believe and perpetuate the lies rather than even do an honest investigation.

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    Replies
    1. You agreed the other day we need to correct ObamaCare. It is now Law, pray tell how do we do that?

      Delete
  37. First thing you do is let it roll out. Then you tweak. Do you think something like this happens in one moment or in one vote or in one year or even one decade? First thing you do is let it actually happen, and then you can make some educated, informed decisions on what needs to be changed. You cannot know those things until you actually watch it in action. So once you figure out what actually needs to be changed, then you make a priority list, and you decide what the new things are that you're going to implement. It could very easily be things that don't have to go through Congress or anything else. But you cannot know exactly what you need to change until you put it into action. And quite honestly, it's been going well so far.

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  38. In other words until everyone's premiums start going up.

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  39. According to Forbes Business , the problem is two-fold: most people don't understand ANY health insurance, and the ACA has been overly
    demagogued . I can vouch for the first: went in to Human Resources
    once on our new health insurance with a question and the helpful
    HR director said, "You're a college graduate, you should be able to figure it out" which rather pissed me. So I said, "You're a
    college graduate AND a National Merit Scholar...can you synthesize
    potassium dinitrobenzofuroxan?"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. BB: "the ACA has been overly demagogued"

      So what you're saying is that the very left-leaning and formerly Obama-supporting UFCW labor union which is now against ObamaCare has joined the Right to demagogue the issue? Tell Joe Hansen he's wrong BB, go ahead.

      Delete
  40. Don't be patronizing. Nothing is ever certain until you roll it out. A couple of weeks ago I spent an entire day trying to figure out a way to keep someone's colostomy bag from coming off (it was coming off so frequently that the skin was breaking down). It took me an entire day, from contemplating the process to actually trying it out to writing the orders in a way that anyone could do it without me being there to tell them how.

    Then you have to wait and watch. Some people take a little longer than others to get it straight so you have to figure out, what's the problem, is it that people are stupid, are the orders not clear enough or is it a problem with the method? In our case it was people are stupid. So I did some inservicing and education and yesterday I looked at the treatment record and I discovered it has been over a week since the entire thing had to be ripped apart and redone.

    So obviously, the way things have to go is like this: you assess, diagnose, plan, implement, evaluate.

    And in the case of Obamacare you discuss at great length with the people who couldn't earlier have gotten insurance due to preexistings. And the people whose kids now have insurance where they didn't before. And the people who would have been victims of recission who aren't anymore. And the people who had diagnostics and preventatives that saved their lives, that weren't available to them before.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree, ObamaCare is a sack of shit.

      Delete
  41. And it occurrs to me to ask why the same people who bitch about women having welfare babies and anchor babies are THE SAME people who want to make abortion illegal and contraception more difficult to get. This is the functional equivalent of bitching about highway wrecks while eliminating speed limits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. (1) Contraception is not illegal and (2) pay for your own shit.

      Delete
  42. Where is the alternative to ACA?. T'would seem logical that if one
    demagogues a policy, they provide something better. Yeah, we can go back to what we had: 40 million with no health insurance, filling up the ER for free care, hundreds of thousands of folks denied because of pre-existing conditions, other hundreds of thousands of folks losing their homes when their health insurance
    kicked them out because of cancer. C'mon GOP, convert me- opt for
    European style single payer. :)

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  43. They can't do that, BB. They just perpetuate the lies and the propaganda. They play out a useless vote 41 times and even if by some malign miracle they did get their vote, they have nothing to replace it with.

    They can't admit that the ACA is WORKING for millions of people, the sky hasn't fallen, and people actually appreciate having insurance.

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  44. And remember I said people believe what fits in with their preconceptions and with what they want to believe? Proof:

    A large number of Louisiana Republicans think President Barack Obama is to blame for the federal government's poor response to Hurricane Katrina, according to a new Public Policy Polling survey released Wednesday -- despite the fact that the storm occurred three years before he took office.

    The Democratic-leaning polling firm, which provided its results to Talking Points Memo, found that 29 percent of Louisiana Republicans said Obama was responsible for the Katrina response. Twenty-eight percent put the blame on President George W. Bush, whose administration did in fact oversee the federal response to Katrina. Nearly half (44 percent) of the Louisiana Republicans polled didn't know who to blame.

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  45. Too much Honey Boo-Boo. I'm starting to agree, let's roll the MoFo out in all its glory. Let Hillary deal with it in 016.

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  46. A bit off topic , but I have been studying up on Lyme Disease and it seems almost every new finding (and the molecular biology is exquisite) seems to be coming from German scientists. They came up with the first vaccine and sold it to US pharma. The idea was good:
    since the surface protein of the offending bacteria acts as an antigen, use a monoclonal of the OpsA protein to induce an immune
    host response. The bacteria, however, (as I understand it) secreted OpsA on the surface of the human cells, confusing the T-cell response and permitting long term sub-infection (which sometimes leads to the arthritis and joint problems manifested long after the actute phase of Lymes). I wonder why the Germans
    are working on it instead of US pharma, other than the old science
    for the pure sake of knowledge vs medicine for the sake of obscene
    profit. Meanwhile the state of California is introducing lizards which love to eat ticks.

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  47. Meanwhile NYC City Council Speaker Christine Quinn her big issue in her campaign to replace Bloomberg is improving the NYC condom. Might wanna rein in those crazy cabbies first.

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  48. Is 'stop and frisk' akin to cameras at red lights?

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    Replies
    1. Not quite as the red light cam probably doesn't have a gun.

      Delete
  49. Out this way, a couple of young punks beat up and killed a WWII
    Battle of the Bulge vet outside an Elks club. What's up with kids getting bored and going out killing folk? I'm a strict law and order guy...do we have to bring back drawing and quartering?

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    Replies
    1. Like those three punks sitting on the porch who decided to kill that Australian tourist. Bored? read a book, go on the Web, look at a butterfly, hell jerk off! Tough being a tourist to America these days esp. with the cabbies in NYC.

      Delete
  50. Fox News is saying they killed the tourist because they're on welfare.

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  51. We report you decide, yeah okay.

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  52. The Aussies are not happy, and spread the blame a bit-

    "Tourists thinking of going to the USA should think twice.
    This is the bitter harvest and legacy of the policies of the NRA that even blocked background checks for people buying guns at gunshows.
    People should take this into account before going to the United States.
    I am deeply angry about this because of the callous attitude of the three teenagers (but) it’s a sign of the proliferation of guns on the ground in the USA.
    There is a gun for almost every American."

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    Replies
    1. I've often said those on the Right feel a gun is like a cell phone, folks should have the right to go out and buy one. Kind of simplistic imo.

      Delete
  53. You can go to Walmart and get one. You can get a pink one For The Cure, even, which to me has to be the absolute quintessence of all things hypocritical. So here's my thing: second amendment says you have the right to bear arms. It doesn't specify what kind of arms nor does it specify how many. Therefore, you could conceivably restrict the hell out of it (you may own ONE handgun, not automatic nor semiautomatic, with a maximum six-shot capacity) without ever violating the second amendment.

    That's the part these idiots don't get. Scalia out there talking about rocket launchers. That has nothing to do with the second amendment.

    These NRA fanatics are just as bad as the Christian fanatics. There's this victim mentality they put out that any kind of equality measure is somehow discriminatory against them (this is the mentality that says saying Happy Holidays discriminates against Christians) and they absolutely thrive on it. Just ask Brian Fischer and the AFA.

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  54. Some years back, a Florida judge had to let some gang members go
    free after a major firefight in the streets, because they met the
    requirements of the Stand Your Ground Law. He was not happy and termed it the Shoot Your Avon Lady Law. Again, NRA, may thanks.

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  55. I agree with the both of you but as I've said before at the root of all this is the prevalant belief among most conservatives that they can't and won't give up any of their guns because then there might be a government takeover, you know the old Hitler-got-rid-of-the-guns-first argument. In other words they'd rather you have a nuclear-powered rocket launcher app on your smartphone than risk a total government takeover a kind of lesser-of-two-evils in their minds. I'm telling you that's at the root of all this and it's not just the Alex Jones fringe element it's all of them.

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  56. Is it true, Saty, that in North Carolina it's easier to buy an
    AR-15 than vote?

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  57. Apparently folks have been getting alot of guns from VA to commit crimes in NYC at least according to Bloomberg.

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  58. It is far easier to get an AR15 than it is to vote. Voting, especially in the regions around Boone, requires traversing a veritable minefield of obstacles. Rachel Maddow's even talked about it.

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  59. Sometimes I think there should almost be some basic minimal intelligence test before one can vote. I mean sometimes you'll see a ranking of popular YouTube videos in the paper and #2 or 3 is "cat throwing up" and when you open up your Yahoo Mail Kim Kardashian is trending again and then you realize some of these people may vote. Scary:)

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  60. That is a legitimate thought: but we get into basic intelligence,
    well informed, educated etc. The requirements as far as I know are just being a citizen. Betcha Saty thinks some of the NC voters that got themselves into the mess didn't meet 'minimum
    intelligence.

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  61. I don't know about minimum intelligence. I feel like people get manipulated by the propaganda. Maybe they're not motivated enough to do their own research, or maybe it's just that the propaganda feeds into their secret fears and hopes (that 'easier to believe things that fit in with your preconceptions' thing), or maybe it's that they're willing to go along with everything else if we can just get the black guy out of the White House (enough people here are racist to make this a statistically viable option), or maybe it's that they've always voted Republican, or always watched Fox, or I don't know what. I don't like to use that minimum intelligence thing because I know lots of generally intelligent people who are just frightened out of their minds that they're going to wake up to find that jackboots are confiscating their weapons, that they are being rounded up into concentration camps, that we are suddenly a Socialist nation (and I have yet to meet someone around here who knows what that means, or even that we have allies who have Socialist governments) and that everything they have worked for and love is being taken away by queers, treehuggers, n*s who have been getting progressively more uppity since the 60's and elitist liberals who want to turn the US into a third world nation.

    I think they're honest in their fears. The fault lies with the people who manipulate them and who stoke those fears for their own ends.

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  62. And that doesn't mean just politicians per se. The NRA, whose board of directors has high-level firearms manufactory people in it, spends a huge amount of time and money trying (and succeeding unfortunately) to convince people that any minute now their doors are going to be broken in and their weapons forcibly confiscated. Therefore the imminent and emergent need for them to hurry up quick like a bunny and go out and buy more guns, more ammunition, and stock it up because The Second Amendment Is Being Threatened. I went to highschool with a guy who's all hot about this. We ended up having to part Facebook ways after he posted something about firearms being confiscated and I asked him if he personally knew anyone whose firearms had been confiscated since Obama took office in 2008 and all these 'they're coming for your guns' rumors got started. He had to admit he didn't and it pissed him off so much that he took me off his friends list. This is the part that boggles me; since 2008, the NRA (amongst others) have been fueling these rumors... nothing ever happens in REALITY, but they keep terrifying people that it's going to happen any minute now, and so people keep going out and buying more guns, which makes the firearms manufactories CEOs on the NRA board of directors that much richer.

    And when you point that out to people, it pisses them way the hell off. Not at how they're being manipulated, but at YOU for trying to claim it ain't so. I speak from experience.

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  63. I'm thinking maybe pro-choice groups and activists do this too, tomorrow you won't be able to abort your fetus so folks gotta go out and make appointments at abortion clinics...now why did I just say this? it's because I like to throw red meat out to you liberals.

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  64. Of course. It's also a silly thing to say... abort today because you can't tomorrow? I mean, really? Hurry up and get pregnant so you can have an abortion while they're still legal?

    Cmon. You can do better than this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's extremely easy to provoke your buttons - stockpiling abortions.

      Delete
  65. Throw liberals red meat? Send Hannity into my yard!!

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  66. The red meat of abortion and anything gay and you liberals turn rabid.

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  67. ..and voting laws, and not taxing zillionaires, union-busting,
    getting rid of minimum wage, social security and headstart, wanting to teach creationism as biology, chickenhawks running around calling themselves patriots...did I mention Hannity.
    Yeah, liberals are a rabid bunch. (some even drive big ol pickups
    and tilt a few beers, though)

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  68. The abortion craze, not that it's planned but there could be a sense of let's vigorously exercise our rights while we still have them. The statistics almost become a political statement.

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  69. I might add BB is adept at dredging up some bizarre story to make anti-aborts look bad like pro-lifers prevent abortion of fetus with three penises.

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  70. A sense of 'let's abort this pregnancy just because we can'?

    Are you serious?

    Women do not have abortions to make a political statement.

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    1. Last NYT's article I read was the abortion rate per yr. was at 1.2 million. That's an unusual rate that's been consistent over time and yes I do think there's a sense of some women do abort for less than compelling reasons. There's been some Hollywood celebrity women for instance who have gotten abortions who could well have afforded a child, a team of nannies, the works and they wouldn't have had to been home all that much so I do think in that case it's an attitude of I have the political right to abort and I'm going to exercise it. It's a new theory and I'm serious but I have to break it down into two here...

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  71. But Saty I do know your position here as often repeated that even if a fetus has a pimple you have the right to abort it. Anyway I do think there's also a socio/political dimension in addition to the personal when women get abortions. The Alan Guttmacher Institute is the research arm of PP and every abortion gets tabulated. Primarily the reason women go to abort is to solve a personal problem but it's strange that such a high abortion rate (1 million+/yr.) would be so consistent over time. Let me put it this way, let's say the rate miraculously went down to only 5,000-10,000 women getting abortions per year are pro-choice legislators gonna pay attention to this? You have now about 1.2 million per year so the average politician is gonna look at that and say we don't like abortion but to ban it now would mean major social upheaval and so we'll leave it alone and the SCOTUS will see it likewise. It has nothing to do with lack of birth control as you would have it and I also think sociologically speaking when so many women are having abortions it salves the collective conscience, millions of women can't be wrong. Abortion has socio/political dimensions not just the personal as you would have it. Think outside the Box once in a while.

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